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What should people look for when choosing a church?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on January 7, 2006

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Photo of David Vance

“I would think the church’s values should agree with their own moral code. It should have an open-minded environment and take an inclusive approach to spirituality.”

Photo of Nkemdirim Ezekwe

“A good priest, preacher or minister and good parishioners. It should have a familylike community.”

Photo of Brian Adams

“A church that focuses on acceptance rather than exclusion.”

Photo of Vanessa Rupp

“I would look for unity in the congregation and in the church’s beliefs.”

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Comments

goatdog 8 years, 3 months ago

Dear christian pigs, I'd look for double door emergency exits. See you on Sunday.

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bearded_gnome 8 years, 3 months ago

if any one still has a shred of interest in the ORIGINAL OTS QUESTION/TOPIC! here's a very useful link for very current info on cults, false christian teachings (i.e. the false prosperity gospel/holy laughter movement etc.): www.equip.org> you can look up Pat Robertson for example, now, there's a false prophet. or, if you are wishing to learn more about an alledgedly christian group or organization.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Just when you thought that it was safe to back into the water....

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killjoy 8 years, 3 months ago

Don't think anyone will miss him

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by boogeyman (anonymous) on January 8, 2006 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

definitely coo coo

54 going on 12" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Oh, MOMMY!

He's acting like a child!"

The last redoubt of one who is getting his/her internet a++ kicked.

Jeeeezzzzuuuuuzzz Keeeeerrrrrrisssttttttttt!

You're no fun.

I'd give you a shot at five out of seven but I've work to do.

Hasta la bye bye!

Marion.

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bearded_gnome 8 years, 3 months ago

too late for that OMB already gone!

thanks

gnome

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one_more_bob 8 years, 3 months ago

Anybody

got

a

pool

going

on

when

m

is

gonna

go

totally

around

the

bend

?

T

h

a

n

k

s

,

o

m

b

0

boogeyman 8 years, 3 months ago

definitely coo coo

54 going on 12

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by gaynproud (anonymous) on January 8, 2006 at 7:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)"

"coo coo"

"koo, koo

koo, koo cha koo!

I am the walrus!"

Big tusks and if you cannot handle your place on the rock beach in breeding season then take a hike!

Haruummmppppffffffff!

(Psst.....ya wanna go for some more cheap shots?)

Thanks.

Marion.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by gaynproud (anonymous) on January 8, 2006 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marion, Listen to yourself. I've met you before and you don't have the financial or mental resources to take on Phelps. You'll just end up with legal action against you. Of course with your limited mental ability and high school education (although you didn't graduate if I remember correctly), you probably see that as validation that you are a somebody. No dips---, you're not. Please, just go back to the dog hair-covered shack and quit flaunting the fact that you are severely ill-equipped to take on anyone. Funny how people who don't have much education seek little activities they can say, "Hey, look at me!" to all their uneducated friends."

I attended KU from 1969-1971 and you will see my smiling face in the Jayhawker of those years.

I returned to that institution in the mid-90s and your reference to my educatiion is a pretty cheap shot but that's OK; anyone looking can see that.

Jeez, can't you do better?

Yep, me and the wolves, as wolves are better people than most people.

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I was given the name Whitewolf by the Shaman and that is good enough for me.

Phred wants to bring "legal action", you call him up and tell him to BRING IT ON!

I am an Internet Service Provider and whether you like it or not, a legitimate journalist.

I mean, I mean, can ya see me walkin' into the court, hummin' a few bars of the Bill Of Rights and then walkin' out?

Man, what are you afraid of?

I don't know who you are but I will tell you this......

...Phred wants to come after me...

...BRING IT ON!

I got the Saints and Apostles on my side!

And couple of .45s.

People like Phred only triumph when people like YOU ALLOW THEM TO WIN!

Thanks.

Marion.

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Arschloch 8 years, 3 months ago

Gaynproud,

Marion will never get it. He's a moron. What could he do against a group of idiot lawyers? Absolutely nothing!

No one cares what he posts on his website, If it was worth reading he wouldn't have to keep annoying the LJW posters with it.

M

a

r

i

o

n

i

s

a

d

u

m

b

a

s

s

t h a n k s

a r s c h l o c h

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one_more_bob 8 years, 3 months ago

The

only

way

to

deal

with

trolls

is

to

limit

your

reaction

to

reminding

others

not

to

respond

to

trolls.

T h a n k s ,

o m b

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gaynproud 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion, Listen to yourself.
I've met you before and you don't have the financial or mental resources to take on Phelps. You'll just end up with legal action against you. Of course with your limited mental ability and high school education (although you didn't graduate if I remember correctly), you probably see that as validation that you are a somebody. No dips---, you're not. Please, just go back to the dog hair-covered shack and quit flaunting the fact that you are severely ill-equipped to take on anyone. Funny how people who don't have much education seek little activities they can say, "Hey, look at me!" to all their uneducated friends.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by gaynproud (anonymous) on January 8, 2006 at 1:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Marion, Do us all a favor and let Phelps fade away on his own; there will be less damage that way. You're just stirring the pot and not accomplishing anything useful. As someone pointed out, you're actually aggravateing the problem.

You get more lashback than anyone who posts on ljw. That might be a clue that your posts are not well received here. Three reasons: 1) Your formatting is annoying with the excessive spacing and the "Thanks, Marion" at the end, 2) your comments are too extreme from normaland are just as was aptly said before, attempts at self validation, and 3) continual promotion of your rct makes you look like a desperate ass."

Lashback is good.

It means that folks are reading the posts and there is actually more positive response then negative as the negative emanates from a quarter which would deny that the sky is blue if I had said that it was.

If you do not like my "formatting" don't read the post; the style demands that the reader either click out or slow down and read it and that is the intent and the point.

I thank those who have taken the time to read what I have posted as they are taking time out of their lives to do so and time is a valuable commodity.

If my comments are "too extreme for NORMAL LAND" then that is a good thing.

See: "1984", "Animal Farm", "Farenheit 451", Zombies, etc.

I do not seek nor do I require "self validation"; what you really mean is that I seek validation from others.

I do not.

I knoiw that I am one of the greatest SOBs that has ever lived ( ;) ) and do not come up short in the sefl-worth department.

"Stirring the pot"?

Darned right and I fully intend to continue doing so.

The Phelps Klan has for too long been allowed to continue unimpeded and I have been bereft in my public responsibilities in that regard.

That has changed.

If I suggested that ignoring HIV/AIDS would make it go away you would come unglued and maybe stroke out.

The Phelps Klan is a virus which infects our society and a very dangerous one; a virus which as is seen attacks not only Gay/Bi/Les/TGD but the mourning and innocent survivors of a mining accident.

It is only through exposure and the telling of the truth that The Phelps Klan will be discredited.

If you choose to ignore them, you have the right to do so...right up until they knock at your door to take you away.

I will not ignore them.

Regardaing "promotion" of RiverCityTalk.com....yep, darn right I'm promoting it.

p>RiverCityTalk.com is the only website in the area which is taking to task The Phelps Klan...the "other" local website is primarily concerned with its frenzied Bush-bashing and self-congratulation. in short, a mutual massage society.

The Internet is a powerful and influential thing and I intend to take full advantage of that power and influence in order to discredit The Phelps Klan.

Thanks.

Marion.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

TO KC WARPONY:

Here is a NUMBER for you to play with; perhaps you can occupy your obsession with numbers, statistics, etc for a while and even maybe find a hidden meaning or code inside it:

Here is the value of Pi expressed to 1000 places:

3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939 9375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825 34211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223 17253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446 22948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233 78678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664 82133936072602491412737245870066063155881748815 20920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548 82046652138414695194151160943305727036575959195 30921861173819326117931051185480744623799627495 67351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440 65664308602139494639522473719070217986094370277 05392171762931767523846748184676694051320005681 27145263560827785771342757789609173637178721468 44090122495343014654958537105079227968925892354 20199561121290219608640344181598136297747713099 60518707211349999998372978049951059731732816096 31859502445945534690830264252230825334468503526 19311881710100031378387528865875332083814206171 77669147303598253490428755468731159562863882353 78759375195778185778053217122680661300192787661 11959092164201989

Thanks.

Marion.

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Ember 8 years, 3 months ago

My god carries a hammer and your savior was nailed to a cross. Any questions?

And as to what I look for in a church?

The exit sign.

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gaynproud 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion, Do us all a favor and let Phelps fade away on his own; there will be less damage that way. You're just stirring the pot and not accomplishing anything useful. As someone pointed out, you're actually aggravateing the problem.

You get more lashback than anyone who posts on ljw. That might be a clue that your posts are not well received here. Three reasons: 1) Your formatting is annoying with the excessive spacing and the "Thanks, Marion" at the end, 2) your comments are too extreme from normaland are just as was aptly said before, attempts at self validation, and 3) continual promotion of your rct makes you look like a desperate ass.

0

one_more_bob 8 years, 3 months ago

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

Well, I said it was for Jan 8, but in reality it is still Jan 7 here in the west. he he I cheated!!!

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

A bit of levity for Jan 8 and for bearded gnome, just for you. A MAN IN A PENGUIN SUIT? A German train driver was left red-faced when he pulled on the emergency brake to avoid hitting a man wearing a tuxedo lying face-down on the tracks. On closer inspection, the obstacle turned out to be a giant toy penguin. Now, b g, how is that for a good subject. he he!!

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l_eustacy 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion, The regional media does a great a great job of ignoring Phelps. Do you understand why that is? He craves the exposure; it just fans their flames. Why do you think he's traveling outside the area. Now get a clue and stop helping him!

If you have so much time and energy on your hands, why don't you go to college and learn how to use it appropriately.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Well, some of the folks who populate RiverCityTalk.com have been doing their homework and have turned up an article about the Phelps Klan which was nixed by the Topeka Capitol-Journal.

Take a look and you will understand why this guy and his demented lot are so dangerous.

The link in the post takes you to a long read but worth it.

http://www.rivercitytalk.com/RCT/showthread.php?t=287

Thanks.

Marion.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Boogeyman:

Ignoring The Phelps Klan is sort of like ignoring Adolf Hitler.

It is only through exposure that his message of hate will be stilled and reviled.

If you think that the Phred Klan is alone then you'd best think again; such religious homophobia is rampant in the US and elsewhere.

Phred's Klan is actually very powerful as they are well funded and many of them are attorneys who handle legal matters for the "church" of which they are a part.

I have also spoken with residents of the mining community in which the deaths occured and have come to believe that if indeed and in fact The Phred Klan shows up there, the reception may be somewhat different than has been experienced in the past.

Lies, hate and prejudice do not end in darkness but only in the strong bright light of truth and exposure.

Thanks.

Marion.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 3 months ago

Danny, I think that you are probably correct in your summation that w/out church, you would be less of what you are. I have to admit, that while I do not go to church nor think that it is the pathway to Heaven, I WAS brought up in the church. This is my inner struggle as an adult. Waging my war with the church against being able to teach my children everything that they need to know to make their own decisions. I try my best to do right by them. They believe now and I hope they continue to do so. If at some point they falter, I'll have myself to blame I suppose. I think you spoke well in your post. Who knows, maybe one day I'll get past my deep seeded issues and haul myself into a church. In the meantime, I'll do as I do and just keep praying that God hears our little voices as well. Thanks for the thought provoking post, Danny.

Good night, all! (Hope you're snug up there Ms_C. We had 60*F today!)

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beer_N_cigarettes 8 years, 3 months ago

if anyone is still reading this at this hour: give that RCT forum a try, its a hoot.

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boogeyman 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion,

You contacted CNN & Fox to cover Fred Phelps and your buddy contacted Geraldo? You are giving him exactly what he wants. I don't know who is the bigger idiot, You or Phelps.

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gaynproud 8 years, 3 months ago

Oh Fred, you're so sweet. I knew after that last kiss you'd come around.

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one_more_bob 8 years, 3 months ago

BTW, thanks, grubesteak, for the troll info link. I'd forgotten about that one.

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one_more_bob 8 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Fred_Phelps 8 years, 3 months ago

Everyone is welcome at my church, especially homosexuals. I love you all!

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

Danny - wonerful post, that's all I want to say. You said it all. Thank you, thank you.

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Daniel Speicher 8 years, 3 months ago

Enoch, that's a good point as well... However, even in the disciple's days you see them setting up a system in which the idea of giving to the poor and tithing could be properly distributed through the use of deacons in the newly formed church.

--Danny Speicher

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Daniel Speicher 8 years, 3 months ago

As for what I look for in a church, enoch hit it on the head... Values that are unwaivering in their alignment with what scripture teaches. Their dogma has to be foundational and their doctrine must be reasonable. But, there are a few churches out there like that. So, what else is there? I like a church that is sincerely concerned about the community in which it lives (both local and international.) I like a church who is passionate about what they teach. I like a church who has a pastoral staff and congregation who loves everyone who comes in the door (regardless of where they are at in their walk at that time.)

As for tithing... It didn't go by the wayside with the Mosaic Law. It is still a command that God wants us to follow. You, Kam, misread the context of Matt. 23. To read it in context, you must go beyond that scripture to where the event starts...

"1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: 'The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses...'" Matt. 23:1-2

He read the seven woes TO his disciples and the crowds. Some of his disciples, Kam, were not Jews. But, yet, the Bible says nothing about them being excluded from this message. Although he certainly was talking to the Jews bound under the Mosaic Law, he was also talking to his disciples (both Jew and Gentile) and the future founders and propagators of his church. Tithing is still important. Although, I will be the first to admit that there are those out there who misuse funds given to their churches. However, they are robbing the Kingdom of money that could be used for good. God will judge these men and women.

As far as going to church... Going to church is not a pre-requisite to get into the pearly gates. That is true. But, I will be honest... It is tough for me to imagine coming out of the hard times in my life as unscathed as I did without the encouragement and prayers of those who loved me within my church. It is tough for me to imagine that I would have remained as near to God without the weekly reminder to do so. And, even now, when things, for the most part, are looking on the "up and up", it is tough for me to imagine that my spiritual growth would be so natural had I not been a part of a local church.

However, once again, the Bible makes it clear that to be SAVED you must confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. But, if you really want to get deeper in your faith... If you really want to know God more I believe the right church can really accelerate that learning. Anyway, hope you all had a really happy holiday season! It has been GREAT being back in Lawrence for a month! Thanks for making this town what it is, folks.

--Danny Speicher

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Nudist:

You spend an awful lot of time trying to keep track of me on the net.

Are you obsessed?

Are you stalking me?

Is it true love?

Are you one of those "Pi" guys, obsessed and fascinated with numbers?

The "Pi" guy was schizophrenic you know.

Check your meds; you could be off schedule.

I'm on the net 12-18 hours a day working and I post on my breaks....how about you?

Work for some pot-bellied bureaucrat or a yuppie with a funny tie?

Inhibiting isn't it?

KCWARPONY:

Forgot about that.

You're right!

Thanks.

Marion.

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enochville 8 years, 3 months ago

Kam_Fong: If you really want to live as the early Christians did, you would "have all things in common" with the other Christians, so that there would be no rich and no poor. It was a holy form of communism. The members would give all that they have to the apostles and then the apostles would divide out the properties to each family according to their needs and so that they would have the supplies they needed for their professions.

I believe that in conjunction with the death of the apostles, Christ's true church was taken from the earth as well as the authority to perform the sacraments. That authority and church were restored to the earth again in the 1800's. The members were again required to live "having all things in common". Unfortunately, due to selfishness and lack of faith, the members were not able to live this way for long. The Lord in his mercy gave us again the lesser law of tithing until such time that we are ready to live the higher law again.

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kcwarpony 8 years, 3 months ago

Actually, traditional Indians don't bother with the middle man, we talk directly to the Creator.

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nudist 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion, You don't get it do you. Even after your 178 posts since Dec. 13th on you own site and hardly any from other people, you don't see the message there. When you said you were the homeless guy's advocate, insulted other posters, then called him nuts and crazy, we just shook our heads. You said you work 50-70 hrs per week and donate 15-20 hours to your dogs. That's impossible when you spend all day making posts on boards. Even your own board lists you at 7.2 posts per day. Look at the posts; you always end up defending yourself against the other posters. Why is that? How about your little moniker on your board "HWMFIC" You said that stands for Head white mother f----- in charge. That's something to be proud of.

Now YOU'RE recalling someone a moron? Again, laughable.

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Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 8 years, 3 months ago

Don't let your pastor fool you into tithing (and making him a wealthy man). Regarding Jesus' approval of Pharisee tithing -- Matthew 23:23 reads: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law -- justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." (See also Luke 11:42) Some people offer this scripture as a proof text that Jesus taught tithing and that it is thus still required of Christians. However, scripture must always be read in context. To properly understand Matthew 23:23 (and Luke 11:42), one must understand the context of to whom Jesus was speaking. He was not speaking to Christians, but instead to non-Christian Jews. Such Jews, who have not accepted Christ's free gift of salvation, are still obligated to obey the entire Mosaic Law, and are thus still required to tithe, as Jesus stated. In this verse, Jesus used tithing as an example of a Law that these hypocritical Jewish leaders were faithful to keep, while neglecting the underlying principles of the law. He could have chosen a different example of the Law, such as: "...you faithfully sacrifice the required burnt offerings. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law..." and the meaning of this passage would have been the same. In any case, his words were neither directed toward nor intended for Christians.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Yes, you would not understand.

I seek validation from no one.

You are a moron.

Thanks for your valuable and insightful post.

Marion.

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Purell 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion,

Two words: get help. You aren't just battling the lunitic fringe, you're part of it. Do you notice what happens everytime you post on LJW? You get ridiculed and laughed at. To keep coming back, you must be a desperate for attention. You've lived a very shallow life to continue to seek validation from strangers. I fell sorry for you. Why don't you end the pain and stay on the little board you're trying to create. I also can't imagine going to Kelly's bar to try to meet women at age 54.

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

sunflower sue - I think you are right when you say that church cannot be equated with heaven. And just because a person goes to church does not mean that they will go to heaven when they pass on. And just because they don't go to church does not mean that they won't. It is what is in the heart and the relationship that one has with Jesus that counts. And when you pray with your girls, (2 or 3 together) He is indeed there with you and He hears you.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

It has also been said (And I forget by which Native American) that the White Man talks about Jesus while the Native American talks TO him!

Thanks.

Marion.

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smitty 8 years, 3 months ago

SunflowerSue, gotta agree with you. JC also said that we will do greater things than him. So why exalt him beyond his own words and historical data. I can be inspired by his parables as I am by many peoples deeds and words.

A TRUTH is a TRUTH no mater whether or not I know what the TRUTH is. IE:I can't intelligently explain gravity even if you can but it is in existance without my understanding.

There is a native prayer that says only the humans have strayed from the sacred ways and it is the humans who must come together to heal the earth and each other. This I can be inspired by and believe also.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

No and don't give a plugged nickel for your opinion!

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thanks.

Marion.

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one_more_bob 8 years, 3 months ago

Keep

plugging

your

"forum"

Marion.

Do

you

get

a

dime

for

every

click?

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

"Posted by boogeyman (anonymous) on January 7, 2006 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sounds like you're a homophobe. You and Fred certainly have somethng in common."

You obviously haven't been around the forums very long if you consider me to be a homophobe!

I am a conservative in the tradition of Senator Barry Goldwater who said regarding the Gays In The Military "Policy" of Slick Willie Klinton, "You don't have to be straight, you just have to shoot straight!".

I openly and avidly advocate for Gay/Bi/Les/TGD rights through the froum that I ADMIN; RiverCityTalk.com and have seen many local conservatives abandon that forum because of my position.

I refer to "The Captain" as the well known and much revered Captain Faggott, whom I count as one of my best freinds.

I'm very sorry if you have misunderstood!

And Italian Princess, on Judgement Day,if there is one, Phred will indeed be called to account....in the meantime he will have to deal with ME!

Thanks to both of you for your input!

Marion.

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

enochville - your comments were well worth the wait and right on the mark. Thank you. The main point in your thoughts comes across loud and clear. And that is LOVE. The love of God for His creation, the love of His children for Him and the love of His children for one another. I think that is one thing that I love most about being a part of God's family. The love that we have for one another. That kind of love is a very strong bond. Again, I agree with enochville about moving to a different area and feeling welcome. When I came to Lawrence in Nov. I attended worship services in a church and I received many very warm greetings and felt most welcome. And I met Christian people in your city with whom I developed an instant rapport. I don't know where else one would find that kind of relationship.

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italianprincess 8 years, 3 months ago

Fred has major problems and he will be judged when his day or night come when he goes before God.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 3 months ago

OK, back to church: Personally, I don't see church as the only way to Heaven. I don't think the NT equates church with the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe somewhere it is said by Jesus "Wherever two or more gather in my name, I shall be there also." (Or something like that.) I'm no expert on the Bible, but I really don't think that church is a requirement for salvation. IMHO, If you have a church that you like and are uplifted by it, then go. If you don't, then don't. I attend "church" most nights as I'm tucking my girls into bed and we say our prayers. I attend "church" when we are gathered around a table of food and we pray. I believe that belief is enough. People shouldn't be judged for not going to church (they may have their reasons). Also, although I'm Christian, I have many athiest friends that I gladly welcome into my home. I do not welcome them in to argue.

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boogeyman 8 years, 3 months ago

Sounds like you're a homophobe. You and Fred certainly have somethng in common.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Oh, forgot.

Can't speak for Phred but I suspect that he'd have a difficult time finding anyone to kiss him these days.

Thanks.

Marion.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Yes, so the girls tell me.

As the Good Captain has often mentioned, I am decidedly straight; I like girls.

Thanks for the thought.

Marion.

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gaynproud 8 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Grubesteak:

You do not understand the difference betwen trolling and activism.

Pastor Martin Niemoller who had been a U-Boot Kapitan in the First World War addressed the United States Congress as follows:

Niemoller's address to the U.S. Congress

The exact text of what Martin Niemoller said, and which appears in the Congressional Record, October 14, 1968, page 31636 is:

"When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- and there was nobody left to be concerned."

Who will advocate for YOU when the Phelps Klan makes YOU the target?

Thanks.

Marion.

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enochville 8 years, 3 months ago

Oh, I meant to say this about tithing. Tithing is handed directly to the Bishop of one of his counsellors in a sealed envelope and some discreet moment between meetings.

Everyone of my denomination's churches throughout the world operate just as I described above. So, when I move to a new area, I transfer my membership record to the congregation that serves my new neighborhood and start attending that congregation. Although those members don't know you, you are instantly accepted as family. In fact, they will usually send out some members to help you move in if you want. Any new face is greeted profusely. It is very difficult to go unnoticed at church.

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enochville 8 years, 3 months ago

To me it is all about God. The ultimate goal in my life is to become one with God, in thought, word, and deed. I seek to know and then do His will. The original question asked about "churches" so it seems to be assuming that the seeker already accepts Christ. If that be the case then one should study the Bible and learn the characteristics of the original church. Christ designed the church with the purpose of leading people to come unto Him.

In looking for a church, one should investigate the various churches, study them out in your own mind, and then pray and ask God where He would have you go to learn more about Him and how to become united with Him.

I agree with Ms canada, that we should learn to conform our values and morals to God's, not find a church that preaches a God that conforms to our liking. God loves us all unconditionally. However, he has given us commands with blessings attached that are designed to lead us to peace in this life and eternal life in the one to come. A church that does not teach us those commandments is not helping us.

A good, loving, and united community is a natural out growth of a true church whose members are striving to be one with God.

Tithing, means one-tenth, and that commandment did not die with the Mosaic law. In our church, there is no paid ministry, so no one is getting rich off of it. Our congregation leader, the Bishop, as well as everyone in the congregation voluntarily accept responsibilities that they perform regardless of the careers they hold. In addition each member visits the houses of other members to discuss the gospel and assist with any needs that family may have. We are all encouraged to read the scriptures every day as well as offer family and personal prayers every day. Families are encouraged to spend an evening together once a week to discuss the gospel and have fun together.

Each member is invited about once a year to prepare a 10-minute speech on a gospel principle to be shared during Sunday meetings. We usually have about three of those during a meeting; the Bishop doesn't give sermons. After that meeting in which we also partake of the Lord's Supper, nearly everyone stays for Sunday School; there is an adult class as well as classes for the children. This year we are studying the Old Testament. And after that class, we have one more meeting in which all the women get together in one room and all the men in the other and study the teachings of the modern prophets.

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grubesteak 8 years, 3 months ago

If you've got a problem with Fred Phelps (as everyone does) you just have to ignore him. He and his group are a troll, feeding off the attention he receives when people get upset at his crazy, outlandish stunts.

Kind of like how Marion is a troll as well.

This link should help you battle trolls in the future:

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm#WIAT

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

No it did not. And my tithe is considered a donation by the government of Canada. I get a tax credit for my donation. It could be anonymous, if I so chose, but I am not ashamed of what I give. A tithe by it's very name is to be a tenth of what I earn. That is really not a lot. If I earn very little, I donate very little. We do not pay to pray, Kam Fong, we pay the man who teaches us God's Word each week. And in case you may not know, our Pastor works very hard. I know because I worked in the church office for six months and I worked very hard also. There are many people in a large church who need care and that is part of a Pastor's job. Also, the preacher does not tell us how much to donate other than explaining what a tithe is. And that is Biblical. Read the passages quoted by bank boy

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Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 8 years, 3 months ago

And as for Kam Fong and tithing. How the heck do you pay the gas bill, the electrical bill and the salaries of the staff and equipment? I tithe and thank God that I can.

You should be able to donate what you can...and it should be anonymous. If the preacher is telling you how much to donate, odds are he lives in a very nice home and doesn't even have a secular job. You bought it! People shouldn't have to pay to pray. Tithing went out with the Mosaic Law.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Speaking of God and things churchy, I just got off the phone with officials in Buckhannon, West Virginia regarding the Phelps Klan.

http://www.rivercitytalk.com/RCT/showthread.php?t=287

Thanks.

Marion.

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Escapee 8 years, 3 months ago

As a recent escapee from Lawrence and its omnipotent, know-it-all population of intelligentsia wannabes...I find this group of answers to be most telling of what a vat of insecure people reside in this commune. They make fun of others' religions...yet profess to be in complete agreement with anything -- politcal, religious, or otherwise -- that buys their 'well-thought-out' (COUGH, COUGH) philosophies in life. 'Self-serving' would be descriptive from the tip of the iceberg. You people need to put on your shoes and walk around the block. Even in Lawrence you can find better answers than this....

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ms_canada 8 years, 3 months ago

I praise God that I have found the church for me. Like enochville said, it was not one that fit my moral code. It was a church that preached the moral code taught by Jesus Christ. I belonged for many years to a church full of people who thought that reading the Bible was silly. I finally smartened up and found a church where reading the Bible was de riguer. Not only reading it but studying the Bible. A church where people cared about each other, a church where people cared enough to pray earnestly for one another. I have been involved in the life of that church for nearly 33 years now. It has not always been smooth sailing. We have had problems, but we overcame them and we grow spiritually. And as for Kam Fong and tithing. How the heck do you pay the gas bill, the electrical bill and the salaries of the staff and equipment? I tithe and thank God that I can. My church family means more to me than anything else in this world. I KNOW that I am cared for there and prayed for. All the joking around today does not bother me. It is all in fun. but there are those who seriously dislike (is hate too strong a word) the church. Could it be guilt? You should never knock something until you have seriously tried it. Read a book or two. May I recommend The Case for Christ by Lee Sobel. Excellent. ceallach gave it to me and I thank you, dear lady. enocville - I am waiting.

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beatrice 8 years, 3 months ago

Make sure that it agrees with your ideas on who God will and who God will not let into Heaven. You wouldn't want to go to a church and end up in Heaven with the wrong sort of people, now would you?

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enochville 8 years, 3 months ago

I sometimes marvel how different my thinking is than nearly all of the comments today. Most of which are just playing around, but even the serious comments.

"I would think the church's values should agree with their own moral code. It should have an open-minded environment and take an inclusive approach to spirituality."

  • David Vance, architect, Lawrence

For David, his moral code comes first and then he finds a church that agrees with him. That is reasonable, but not at all in line with my thinking.

"A good priest, preacher or minister and good parishioners. It should have a familylike community."

  • Nkemdirim Ezekwe, desk assistant, Lawrence

For Nkemdirim, the community is most important. Again, this makes sense, but is not my approach.

"A church that focuses on acceptance rather than exclusion."

  • Brian Adams, software engineer, Kansas City, Mo.

Brian, is looking for a church that is accepting of people the way they are. I understand that, but not my top priority.

"I would look for unity in the congregation and in the church's beliefs."

  • Vanessa Rupp, receptionist, Hays

I like this a lot, but still not enough for me.

I'll be back with my answer.

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GreenEyedBlues 8 years, 3 months ago

Good call, Kam_Fong: One must have a very guilty conscience to get so excited about tithing. Purchasing one's salvation seems calculated and NOT in God's plan. If your god wants you to dump your hard-earned change into a wicker basket every Sunday, yours is a false religion. I said it.

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boogeyman 8 years, 3 months ago

I wonder which wine would go best with kitties...and Gilmore?

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even_money 8 years, 3 months ago

Manly, yes.

But I like it too!

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Hannibal_Lecter 8 years, 3 months ago

e_m, Mmmmmm, Definitely worth trying. I've been thinking about having Robert Gilmore ove for dinner

Do you think the kitties taste like chicken?

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prospector 8 years, 3 months ago

A noted actress of the early 20th century, the name escapes me, after a drunken Saturday night out, ended up passed out in a pew at an Episcopal church. When roused by a preist carrying the incense urn(?) preparing for the Sunday service, she was reported to tell him, "Honey, I just love your outfit, but it appears your purse is on fire.".

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even_money 8 years, 3 months ago

Lecter, I am guessing you use some type of marinade? I've got this small jar (too small for a kitten, unfortunately) of Grilltime Seasoning for STEAK. D'ya suppose that'd be any good?

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Kookamooka 8 years, 3 months ago

I can't afford God anymore. He's sooooo expensive these days. And UGH!!! those services with the clapping and the hugging and boring sermons that last forever!! And that crazy story about Jesus and all the weird stuff that happens to him, in the desert and on mountians and the blood and the gore and the "miraculously" impregnated teenager then there are the people who have to 'interpret" it for you because it's all crazy talk. And the monotone prayers...and the money,money, money. And the getting out of bed on a Sunday... If it weren't for the music..it wouldn't be worth it. All ye Praise Good Church Choirs. (and don't forget to support them financially)

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 3 months ago

e_m, that was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. Since "foot binding" used to be the rage, I'm going to assume that this actually happens somewhere?!? Please don't tell me. I really don't want to know! BARF!

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Hannibal_Lecter 8 years, 3 months ago

EM, You're killing me. That is so deliciously sick.

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sunflower_sue 8 years, 3 months ago

Churches: when looking for one, they usually have a cross on them or sometimes even a bell tower. I like the old stone churches myself. Now if I could get all the way to Italy, I'd choose one of those with a big rose window, gargoyles, and flying buttresses.

e_m and killjoy, The "hot babes" are taken to the cry room or the nursery. Usually after a snack and a diaper change, they are cooled down sufficiently to come back in.

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muslim 8 years, 3 months ago

Speaking od hot babes, I look for one that doesn't want me to collect on the 72 virgins too soon.

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even_money 8 years, 3 months ago

What should people look for when choosing a cat? Waaaaay off topic. Revolting, to boot.

http://www.bonsaikitten.com/

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killjoy 8 years, 3 months ago

I think e_m said it best. Church can be just as good a place as funerals to find hot babes.

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bankboy119 8 years, 3 months ago

Kam Fong, you obviously need to go back through and reread your bible kid. Tithing was not eliminated in the Old Testament. Read Matthew 5:17-19 and Hebrews 5-7.

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Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 8 years, 3 months ago

If the pastor owns the nicest car in the church parking lot it's safe to assume he'll want your money more than your prayers. If he encourages tithing, steer clear. Anyone with bible knowledge knows that tithing was eliminated as part of the old Mosaic Law and is no longer required.

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jonas 8 years, 3 months ago

Well, in my case I had to find the one that was suitably secret from the townsfolk, that had a large stock of already captured sacrificial goats, and that let me bring in my own robe and mask, cuz I'm not buying another one.

And, of course, hot women.

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smitty 8 years, 3 months ago

You'd think! But I doubt that those women thought at all beyond look at me, I'm married, I'm worthy. Not! At least they were fast learners with him. Obviously none of the marriages lasted any length of time. Just divide 8 into a normal adult life span of maybe 50 years and you get a grand average of 6.x years. This is optimistic for him since he was married 20 years to the mother of his children. Apparently if he screws em he marries 'em.

What was the question? Oh yeah, what should people look for when choosing a church? Brother Smith says a loose screw.

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even_money 8 years, 3 months ago

You'd think the women would catch on after awhile?

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smitty 8 years, 3 months ago

Too true.

My brother has been married eight times.

He only goes to church for singles groups when he needs a new wife.

I despise my brother and his use of churches.

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even_money 8 years, 3 months ago

Hot, single church babes you could score with.

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smitty 8 years, 3 months ago

Actually he only wants the church values to match with his personal values.

Isn't that what we have in the rampant religious fundmentalism now?

Rare exceptions in my opinion.

Suggested read, Jimmy Carter's new book on America's moral crisis.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Thank you.

I will also be in contact with city officials there and will report to you on their take of this matter.

Thanks.

Marion.

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mr_sassy_pantsss 8 years, 3 months ago

Marion-- good job. Phelps is a disgrace to the human race... human, animal, mammal, insect, et al.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Uh, that should read: "all who find the actions of the Phelps Klan reprehensible....".

mmmmmm.....

coffee......

Thanks.

Marion.

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

Pursuant to my earlier comment, I notice that there is no outrage expressed by any of the local churches regarding the intention of the Fred Phelps family to demonstrate at the funerals of the miners killed in the disaster in West Virginia.

Fred and his lot have announced that they thank God for the deaths of those miners as punishment for the rampant faggotry in that Eastern state.

I encouragea all who find the actions of the Phelps Klan to join us in our efforts to defame them at:

http://www.rivercitytalk.com/RCT/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Thanks.

Marion.

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beer_N_cigarettes 8 years, 3 months ago

one out of four.... only Mr. Vance refers to values and morals within the context of church. If this questioned were asked of say 1,000 people how many of them would mention values and morals in the context of church?

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Marion Lynn 8 years, 3 months ago

When seeking a new church one should seek out the one which has built the newest, finest and most expensive building, therein to make joyful noises unto the Lord.

One should then run like Hell.

Thanks.

Marion.

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