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Should employees be able to smoke inside after business hours?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on September 16, 2005

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Photo of Jason Caudle

“Inside a private business, they should. I don’t see any difference between smoking there and smoking at home.”

Photo of Peggy Scally

“I think it’s a public health issue and they should not be allowed to smoke inside.”

Photo of Ana Lopez

“I think the main concern of the ban is to protect other people’s health. So if they are working with other people, then they shouldn’t be able to.”

Photo of Sarah Holswade

“Yes, because sometimes after a long shift, all you really want is a cigarette.”

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KsjKC 11 years ago


I've no idea what that all really means, but it sounds so very very dirty..

Linda Aikins 11 years ago

I have a great thought, but(t) won't "say" it. Big Bro may be watching.

heretoday 11 years ago

I think that should be up to the jurisdiction of the employeer/owner of the establishment.

MoreThanUltimate 11 years ago

Gimme a break, four consenting adults with a legal substance and no one else? What if you owned a business and no one else is around but you? Think you should get a ticket? Smell? Most bars were here before the ban. The smell is not even a consideration. I would fight it as this ban has not helped Lawrence at all. Anyone notice the number of people out on weekends? Not nearly the same. All those people that cried about smoke and how they would frquent local business if this passed. Havent seen hardly one. Why? People are creatures of habit. Non-smokers didnt go out for late night drinks in large numbers before and not many go out now just as before the ban. Now hardly anyone goes out late night. Sucked the late night atmosphere out of Lawrence. Why is Kansas city waiting for everyone else to pass an ordinance? They have seen the damage it has done in Lawrence. Otherwise there would have been a smoking ban passed. Notice that the number of people from surrounding areas are not going to bars in Lawrence as much? Notice the bars outside Lawrence doing EXTREMELY well? Gee must be the marvelous decor, atmosphere and service and uh... the ability to have a smoke with a drink.

ksteacher 11 years ago

I don't believe that they should. Regardless of whether the smoking is done during business hours or after, the smell and smoke still penetrates into the surrounds. I know, from living with smoking parents, that the smell of the cigarette smoke seeps into everything around it.

canyon_wren 11 years ago

I guess, as usual, I didn't really address the question. I get so caught up in the interesting responses and the direction they take that I get sidetracked.

I think that IF the issue is making sure customers don't breathe smoke in an establishment, that purpose is certainly defeated by allowing smoking after hours--so, as the law now stands, employees should not be allowed to smoke at any time.

It is simply a bad law and SHOULD be repealed.

b_asinbeer 11 years ago

Sarah just made my day. I didn't think it was possible to make this dumb of a comment....thanks for proving me wrong. I don't know about Sarah, but after a long shift, I just wanna lay down, put my feet up, and rest my head.... Yes Sarah, nothing makes you savor a hard day more than inhaling a bunch of carcinogens and toxins from a cigarette. Mmmm...can you feel that carbon monoxide flowing freely through my veins?

jonas 11 years ago


. . . health issue. . . . .


Face it, it's NEVER been a health issue. It's all been a "I don't like the smell in my clothes and hair" issue. This just makes it a little more out in the open, since the second hand smoke is already gone.

"Help, I just caught second hand carcinogens. Sure, I was licking the walls, but the woodstain made them look like chocolate and I just couldn't help myself!"

Richard Heckler 11 years ago

The new gas prices are going to keep some closer to home when you must add $6 for every trip to town or more...probaly more like $12.00 .

I like the ban no question and it's always been a 24 hour ban. Sounds like the bar was serving drinks after hours but only got caught smoking. Owner beware of serving after hours for awhile as someone did not like that idea.

A friend did offer a suggestion for compromise of 10PM - 5AM but neither side was interested thus no late smoking hours. More and more cities are doing the ban and most of the local bars that were doing good business are still around. The Bottleneck still has lines of people to see music and dance.

After 30 or more years of not smoking my mother in law was diagnosed with lung cancer and is in her 70's. Had extremely healthy eating habits and is not heavy. Smokers better start looking for Ambrotose and using it everyday. Some patients are using this as part of their treatment which seems to help remove and fight off those cancer cells that show up in our bodies daily. My in-laws will tell you cancer treatment is hell and very very expensive.

jonas 11 years ago

Merrill: You are aware that lung cancer does not have to be caused by cigarettes, right?

Topside 11 years ago

OMB-I don't like the tone of your post! Now I have to stop burning people at the stake. What am I going to do with all this extra kerosene? I even bought one of those fancy long metal lighters with the trigger and everything. I was going shopping for a new pillary this weekend too, I guess I'll just go to the KU game.

KsjKC 11 years ago

Jack Nicholson, as The Joker in BATMAN (1989):

"This town needs an enema..."

I think that covers it...The collective sphincter of the city commission can block light from three galaxies...I find it hard to imagine a town like Lawrence and no smoking...I never even wanted to SEE The Bottleneck without the haze of cigarette smoke...

KsjKC 11 years ago


That was twice...anymore and you need to frame it like the classic episode of The Brady Bunch featuring Jan: "It's all I hear; it's always Sodomy Sodomy Sodomy..."


Two things in my opinion. One: Brittany, honey, you are a cutie. Two: BS--You were caught and you know it. Owning it makes you sexier..."

Now, knowing what a (pardon the pun) firestorm this will set off in Lawrence [I live in KC now to hell with it] the smoking ban in BARS is asinine. If a majority percentage of total revenue was food, I'd consider recanting. But when smoking is being legislated in the place where the last legal drunk is being dispensed--that just tweaks my hypocrisy alarm.

Poor Brittany should probably consider herself lucky she didn't get caned or spend two days in the box...

Yes. I am a smoker. Denis Leary is my friend and role model. The pink-lunged non-smoking sissies are chafing us. We will rise up and revolt. Sure, we may need a head start because of our emphysema, but watch -- cough cough--watch your ass..;)

Jayhawk226 11 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Jayhawk226 11 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

KsjKC 11 years ago

i_tching---Do you get leg cramps from all those jumps to conclusions??

Ohhhh Yes---Smoking tobacco leads to all sorts of other deviant smoking cigars---sipping martinis--becoming...Republican...

Dear Lord---the horror...

neopolss 11 years ago

"public health" and "public safety" has created the current world we live in. The same generation that tripped out on acid now controls the authority to prevent you from making those mistakes. It's been a great ride folks. Despite the oppurtunities and protections we have given to our children, we have seen an increase in suicide, and increase in depression, and an overwhelming sense of fear instilled into our children. Congrats. We did what we said we'd never do and then doubled it. Has anyone read the current Playboy article on college today? What a depressing state of affairs that is. I say that in ten years, prepare for a serious backlash in youth behavior.

That said, I find it a complete waste of city dollars to be chasing around smokers when I've had my car broken into twice since living here. Jonas is definately right. If you went for this thinking it was about health, you were duped. This is only about power and control.

Linda Aikins 11 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

canyon_wren 11 years ago

Posters have covered this comment so well in the past, it seems useless to go over it again, but it's better than some of the other topics.

My town has a large group of folks on oxygen riding around on those little carts. Granted, many were uranium miners, but most of those smoked as well. I should think that would discourage young people from taking up smoking but it doesn't seem to. My own mother's life was shortened by emphysema and, yes, cancer treatments ARE costly and we, as taxpayers, are footing the bill for many of the treatments. I hate running into cigarette smoke in hotel rooms, etc.

Having said all that, I still think the ban on smoking in bars is stupid and think bar owners should have the right to allow smoking--either in separate sections or throughout the bar. It's part of the atmosphere and folks can choose to come or not. When I go to a bar here in my town, I expect smoke, and can accommodate it then. I think Lawrence has gone 'way overboard in its regulations, including the fireworks ban, along with others. The City "fathers" (and mothers) should "get a life" and quit trying to control others. Tiffany shouldn't have been breaking the law if it applied in her situation but it's disgusting that someone bothered to call her on it at that time of the morning.

As usual, this is a classic example of "If not everybody wants it, nobody gets it."

nlf78 11 years ago

It's a public business and even if it's closed and after hours, GO OUTSIDE!! It's a public ban and I personally love being able to walk into a restaurant where there is no smoke. I have health issues BECAUSE of growing up in a smoking household. Keep it in your own house!

KsjKC 11 years ago

nlf78 makes a statement regarding health issues involving smoking; the validity of that point is up-for-grabs because there are superior ventilations systems on the market that could greatly improve air quality at a cost that would not drive up menu cost...No one at the moment has any reason to investigate them because of the smoking ban...

I had mentioned earlier this morning the raw hypocrisy of being in a place that dispenses the last legal drug but bans smoking. Smoking bad for you? Agreed. So is pickling your liver. Wanna not smoke for the kids? Admirable. If you are 21 and over and have made the choice to imbibe, why in the Sam Hell should your choice to smoke or be around it be legislated?

I truly doubt convention and visitor business is aided much by a community that is so strident in enforcing free choice. We are telling people to spend money to come to Lawrence and enjoy our night life but bring a designated non-smoker to watch your stuff while you stand on the street and offer second-hand smoke to passers-by...

Did anyone really think that one over??

Hong_Kong_Phooey 11 years ago

Good grief! All you smokers are truly addicts! Man, let it go. The smoke is gone from inside the bars. Move on with your lives.

I guess people in Lawrence just need a "cause" matter how stupid it is.

John Spencer 11 years ago

Ban birth, it leads to criminal behavior.

John Spencer 11 years ago

TOB, Bill Hicks rules this world and all others like it. At least on an astral plane anyway.

neopolss 11 years ago

canyon_wren, young people SHOULD learn from the mistakes we have made, but then, they wouldn't be youth. The experimentation time in life is crucial. Kids going to college should be doing dumb things. Unfortunately, it is this protective view that has become adopted that is transforming this next generation into no-fun-having worry warts. Many of our youth have spent their entire lives fearful that any mistake might cost them their future. Life planning has began at 20.

Manson 11 years ago

I think if the City TRULY feels it is acting as the great savior to save us from health hazzards by putting it's grimey hand into the personal lives of its citizens then we should come to expect it to apply it's philosophy across ALL employment and city areas.

Effective immediately the city should stop all pollution produced by any machine to save the quality of air for me and my children. I deserve the right to clean air.

The greatest Irony is that before the ban I had the decision wether or not to subject myself to harmful air or not in a bar setting. It's a concept that fails to resinate with the ban supporters. Don't want to breathe it....Don't F'in go. But all along the air I breathe especially downtown is more harmful. The ban supporters would rather Deficate on everyone's parade by forcing business owners and patrons to bend to their self serving desires.

All downtown motor transportation is now in violation of the city's clean air inititave and must be stopped to protect the PEOPLE'S health. They made their grave now lie in it!

This same case can be made for 1000 other everyday health concerns yet they pick the one that has the most subjectivity to it and the one that IS IN FACT THE MOST AVOIDABLE. All in the name of Health? BS.

Linda Aikins 11 years ago

It's probably good that they removed my anagram. We wouldn't want to be offensive here. And "sxxxxx" is a painful subject.

"I'd be a non-smoker if I didn't think I'd turn into one of you whiney #$!%s." William Hicks.

Another masterpiece TOB.

canyon_wren 11 years ago

neopolss--I agree that youth is the time to try things out--it is just too bad that when people want to stop smoking, it's so difficult. I am sure I could never give it up if I had begun--it looks like a lot of fun!

I also agree that our society has gone overboard in protecting us from ourselves. I'm glad I'm not a child today, having to wear helmets, kneepads, etc. just to ride a bike or do anything fun outside!

Liberty 11 years ago

What the city is saying by this is: The city is claiming ownership of all businesses in Lawrence. They will control what a business does and does not do in the name of safety. This is a form of facism (tight controls over business). If they totally own and control the business, it is communism. The people for this ban have created this ugly environment for others.

John Spencer 11 years ago

I know what we can do.... We should all have a 'smoke in.' Call the police make sure we all get ticketed, (because otherwise it would be discrimination). We all should request jury trials, and then completely ovewhelm the Judicial system. Hit the city in the pockets and see how they react.

Confrontation 11 years ago

I don't quite understand how smoke-free bars are causing the weakness of today's youth. I didn't try smoking as a youth, since I was smart enough to know that it wasn't a good decision. Should we encourage young people to smoke and drink in order to give them a sense of freedom? Is "doing dumb things" in college really beneficial to anyone? I think the smoking ban is wonderful, and I could care less about a bunch of addicts not getting to express their smoking skills. Let's get serious. The real reason people smoke at bars is because they want to have a common bond with others, and to find a way to get past their social weaknesses and meet someone (do you have a light?). Is that any better than, "what's your sign?" For those who think using alcohol around others is the same as smoking, when was the last time you had someone standing next to you force alcohol into your liver?

Manson 11 years ago

When was the last time anyone forced you to GO INTO a bar and breathe smoke ?

Manson 11 years ago

Your desire to go to a specific bar does not trump the right of the business owner/patorn to smoke in a setting advertised as a smoking establishment. It's that simple.

Manson 11 years ago

The whole deal about breathing 2hand smoke is irrelevent since it's entirely avoidable

Confrontation 11 years ago

Sounds like someone hasn't had his nicotine fix today. Perhaps the gas prices are keeping you from your retail outlet? Poor person with antisocial problems. Students are still packing into the bars. I don't see any negative to this new law. Of course, there was the poor man in a wheelchair who was "forced" to go outside and smoke in the cold weather. Boo-hoo! Maybe he should give up smoking or the bar, and he'd save himself some time and money (from his disability check that taxpayers give him).

Confrontation 11 years ago

Okay, how do I avoid second-hand smoke when I exit a store and I walk through a cloud of it? What about if I'm walking down Mass St. and I don't realize the loser in front of me is smoking it up and a I "run" into his cloud of toxins? How is this entirely avoidable? Maybe we should make all smokers wear glow-in-the-dark clothing and only go out at night?

Jayhawk226 11 years ago

I had a comment blocked...

...amazing. It was a very valid point to the foolish rationale of citing a bartender afterhours for smoking afterhours.

I merely asked if this would make sodomy legal, afterhours, using the same logic?

I think that's a fair and unoffensive

Jayhawk226 11 years ago

Phew...I really thought I was out there on my own and a little defensive now that I was finally censored!!!

beatrice 11 years ago

J_226: We need to protect people against second-hand sodomy.

Manson 11 years ago

"Okay, how do I avoid second-hand smoke when I exit a store and I walk through a cloud of it? What about if I'm walking down Mass St. and I don't realize the loser in front of me is smoking it up and a I "run" into his cloud of toxins? How is this entirely avoidable? Maybe we should make all smokers wear glow-in-the-dark clothing and only go out at night?"-Confrontation

Sounds like a personal problem to me. First you were arguing aginst bars.. now it's outside air? Contact the city.

Now answer my question. When have you ever been FORCED to breathe second hand smoke in a bar? And don't come with some redicilous circumstance like you did about passing smokers on the street. Remember you entered the bar on your own choice to do so. Second hand smoke is easily avoidable...think about it and if you can't figure it out Ill be glad to hep.

FYI the air you breathe outside is full of unhealthy toxins especially downtown.

Confrontation 11 years ago

DonQuipunch: Sorry you may have been "burned" by your coffee. I'd hate to damage your health. So, you're saying that because you're an addict, you should have a place to hang out? Try staying home. People quit smoking on their own, every day, just like alcoholics. I think you stay "addicted" just so you have a reason to go to the bars, which is apparently your "last place of refuge." Sounds like a way to socialize to me. Maybe we can create a national park for you to inhabit.

Manson 11 years ago

"And I agree with your point. It's illegal to smoke in a bar. Period. Agree / Disagree with the law, whatever. It is the law. If you're going to break the law be prepared to get caught and face the consequences. Not rocket science."-TOB

It's not just the law. It's a law without any merit. It's also a law that is not evenly applied across the city and all jobs. it's also a law that was created without ANY public vote. signed sealed and delivered to us without approval. It's selctive and rediclous especially when 2hand smoke is entirely avoidable. See my previous post for guidence.

Confrontation 11 years ago

Manson "The whole deal about breathing 2hand smoke is irrelevent since it's entirely avoidable". You're the one who said second-hand-smoke is ENTIRELY AVOIDABLE. It is not entirely avoidable, if you haven't noticed. I am also not against bars, and I knew the consequences of going into bars. I just think it makes sense to ban this smoke in any place with employees. Go have a cig.

Manson 11 years ago

I don't smoke. Secondly Employees apply for those jobs that make it EVIDENT that the 2hand smoke will be present. Again 2hand Smoke IS ENTIRLEY avoidable. I don't want to be an underwater welder for nothing. It has certain hazzards that I find unattractive. Much like 2hand smoke for bartenders.

Jayhawk226 11 years ago


I really enjoyed that...laughed out loud, literally!

Confrontation 11 years ago

Apparently, Manson has never walked out the doors of Target, WalMart, or a gas station. If so, then maybe he would have been met with a nice cloud of fluffy toxins.

Linda Aikins 11 years ago

May 22, 1998.

It was a dark and smoky night.

beatrice 11 years ago

Manson: "Now answer my question. When have you ever been FORCED to breathe second hand smoke in a bar?" The simple response is -- anytime I am in a bar where people smoke. It is unavoidable. I may not have been forced into the bar, but once there, I would be FORCED to breathe the second-hand smoke. If I worked there, I would certainly be FORCED to breathe in the smoke of others.

My question for you is: Should there ever be a limit to the danger an employer can subject an employee? Should we do away with all OSHA rules? Should there be any safety standards? Do businesses not have the obligation of providing a safe working environment for employees?

linux_chick 11 years ago


The kicker for the ban wasn't second-hand smoke posing a reasonable health risk in general...

The point was that there is a significant risk posed on continual exposure to 2nd-hand smoke in enclosed areas. No one is trying to stop people from smoking outdoors.

artwhore 11 years ago

nobody bitches about not being able to smoke on an airplane. who started that ban?

the Federal Government.

if someone in my office building lit up they would get fired.

the difference between my office building and a bar or resteraunt?


smokers sure like to think they're right to kill themselves if protected right, well, you're wrong.

suicide is against the law. and trying to kill someone with your second hand smoke. murder.

shame on anyone who smokes and whines about not being able to smoke inside a public place. shame shame shame.

beatrice 11 years ago

Manson: One more thing -- few laws are actually created by popular vote. For instance, I don't recall us ever voting against drunken driving, speeding, theft, murder, etc. ... yet there are laws against these things. Should we count these as being without merit?

J_226: Glad you enjoyed that. I just know that after having second-hand sodomy, I always feel like having a cigarette.

linux_chick 11 years ago

I'm actually in favor of the smoking ban, but I'm having trouble siding with anyone here.

It's probably unreasonable to cite a ticket when all the people in the immediate area are smokers themselves. It's a judgement call that doesn't seem to aid in the spirit of the ban (protecting coworkers from health risks).

That said, what in the world is Hurter thinking, whining about getting a ticket for being in violation of city ordinance? No one forced her to break the rules.

Does she not realize that had the officer turned a blind eye he would be doing her favor, not fulfilling an obligation?

Lulu 11 years ago

They should ban bars then there wouldn't be a cigarette smoking issue.

When will they legalize smoking marijuana in the privacy of your own home? That is something I will support.

acg 11 years ago

Wow, lots of good posts today. It sucks that chicky was cited but she knew the risks when she brokes the rules. Don't even get me started on how stupid I think this ban is, or how dangerous banning can be, or how slippery a slope we're on when we start telling business owners that they can't cater to a clientele they wish to have patronize their business. The health risks are obvious. I'm a smoker, wish I wasn't but I am, and I know the risks. You have to be living under a rock to not know, so we need to stop arguing about the health factor altogether. No one can dispute smoking is bad, mmmmkay? The real thing we should be focusing on it arbitrary decisions being made by our governing bodies that affect the rights of people, business owners, property owners, etc.

dotteboy 11 years ago

Sarah Holswade you are a goddess. I couldn't agree with you more. There is nothing more I enjoy than a chest full of smoke and a double Chivas and soda with a twist after work. Read my comments for "Bartender given citation for smoking after hours". By Chad Lawhorn Friday, September 16, 2005 Tiffany Hurter, a bartender at Conroy's...CYOA baby! CYOA!!!!!

linux_chick 11 years ago

Heya TOB; I've missed you guys too.

Manson 11 years ago

"My question for you is: Should there ever be a limit to the danger an employer can subject an employee? Should we do away with all OSHA rules? Should there be any safety standards? Do businesses not have the obligation of providing a safe working environment for employees?"-Beatrice

It's funny mention OSHA because Noehere in OSHA standards does't it say anything regarding not allowing smoking indoors.

Reason: because there are no circumstances where anyone in a resturant setting with proper working ventalation systems where their health is at no more a greater risk than breathing our already polluted air. The second hand smoke argument is BS. With the existing ventaliton systems in place Lawrence resturants were meeting the standard.

linux_chick 11 years ago

Nice to see you guys making for such a great debate.

I'm off to go to my bf's High School reunion in Wichita. (Did I tell you guys I nabbed a guy?)

Have a nice weekend everybody! Happy posting.

rhd99 11 years ago

Employers have the rights to examine & possibly address smoking issues or other facets with regard to lighting up at the work place. The last place from where we need to hear "Miss Manners" rules on smoking are from the THREE who voted for this stupid ban. Oh yeah, sure this one, she got caught, but what about others who light up that the cops have NOT caught? Shelve this policy or put some teeth behind the enforcement, COMMISSIONERS. Either way, WE'RE WATCHING YOU, BOOG!

beatrice 11 years ago

Manson: You didn't answer the questions, so I will repeat one: Do businesses not have the obligation of providing a safe working environment for employees?

The reason there are no OSHA standards on smoking is because of the political pressure from the tobacco industry, not because of a lack of proof of the hazards of second-hand smoke. It is not BS, as you claim. (Look on the wall behind you. Do you see a medical degree with your name there? If not, then perhaps you should listen to the qualified doctors on this one.) Smoke, whether first or second hand, can cause CANCER, and a ventilation system won't remove all smoke in the air. If you are wrong on this, the risk to others is too great to be ignored. Be pro-cancer if you wish, but put your own health at risk. Don't try to take the rest of us down with you.

rhd99 11 years ago

OMB, you're right, I agree, but for smokers who want to stop smoking, do it not just for the little kittens, but do it for yourselves & do it because you want to, not because some AMATUER politicians said so.

Linda Aikins 11 years ago

"suicide is against the law. and trying to kill someone with your second hand smoke. murder.

shame on anyone who smokes and whines about not being able to smoke inside a public place. shame shame shame."

Shame on me for smoking Kevorkian Light 100's. shame shame shame.

rhd99 11 years ago

Look, folks, I understand your all's positions, but in a pragmatic approach, I submit to you that this is all about a little game called P.C. (Politically Correct). P.C. SAPS at our abilities to LIVE. Living in this country requires us to exercise responsibility. It does NOT require big brother to say "abortions are illegal" or "smoking is a felony". Abortion & smoking are unrelated I know, but they symbolize something, a message to government, STAY OUT of our personal LIVES!

LesterBurnham 11 years ago

I'm a non-smoker, probably always will be. I have no problem with other people smoking, anywhere on private property. As long as they keep it out of the hopitals or other government property, what is the problem? Every land owner can choose if they want smoking in their home or business. If there were enough people who can't stand the smell of smoke, then their business would decline.

The fact is that you can do all the essentials of life and avoid smokers, even without a smoking ban. Banning this on private propery bars is a bad decision for the town's atmosphere. Smoking is a American tradition, certain places should rightly be accosiated with smoking.. bars, coffee houses, etc. For the non-smokers, the people concerned about living a long time, just don't go there if you feel it endangers your health. Second hand smoke won't kill you if its a once a week occasional thing. Back when a non-smoking "section" was used things were perfect. If your a non-smoker that works in a smoking industry, just find another industy if you can't deal with it. Every job has its accociated health risks. The risk from working in a bar full of smoke is no different than the risk of alling off a building being a construction worker. It is an occupational choice.

The smoking ban is against this what this country stands for. It intrudes on the personal freedom's of our citizens. Stop whining about the smoke and stay home.

Topside 11 years ago

Why are we still beating this dead horse this late in the day. Doesn't this topic come up at least once a week. I think it's been covered as nauseum....Anyway does anyone know where I can find an Abba Zabba candy bar in town? I love them but, they are rare and hard to find when you need that PB/Taffy fix.

Manson 11 years ago

Tobacco lobby isn't what it used to be. I hate to burst your bubble but the Tobacco lobby is Dead. Think they wanna cuddle up to the politicians that supported the Government taking them to court and getting BILLIONS? Get Real.

The fact is that the occasional second hand smoke that is present in resturants is not enough to cause cancer. You make it sound like someone is breathing liters and liters of smoke right down your throat. I don't blame you for embelishing your experiences. It's is a common resort for someone that will do anything to support their broken argument.

Last but not least some doctors are just like politicians. They will find and create studies that support their personal adgendas. Doctors are not as reliable or smart as you may believe. They don't have all the answers and aren't always credible.

The air in a smoking allowed resturant is no more polluted or foul as the very breath you provide your argument for.

rhd99 11 years ago

The studies related to smoke, first or second hand is INCONCLUSIVE.

rhd99 11 years ago

I want to leave you all with this thought: We may agree or disagree about smoking & how smart or STUPID something like this so-called ordinance we now have in the books may be. The only thing our President said with which I agree totally is his idea that frivolous lawsuits cost lots of money you & I work very hard to earn everyday. Have you seen those ads for cigarettes in Good Housekeeping, SI, Time, Newsweek, etc.? The Surgeon General posted warnings in each of these ads. Didn't our fellow Americans read those blips? I did. I have never smoked nor will I EVER. Those who support this ban have every right to do so. I don't, because nowhere in our laws in the U.S. does it say smoking is illegal. Camels, Marlboro, & other brands require ID at stores, but are not illegal. The companies that make these brands are not illegal. They pay taxes, too. Those who filed lawsuits then & in the future will lose because as smoking is considered UN-AMERICAN by some P.C. folk, so too is shutting down the lives of our fellow Americans who work for these companies. They too pay taxes, so are they UN-AMERICAN? DON'T THINK SO!

canyon_wren 11 years ago

These last comments by Lester Burnham and Manson were great and to the point!

beatrice 11 years ago

I have the right to own a gun, but I can't fire one inside a bar. I have the right to drink, but not to drive drunk. I have the right to free speech, but not to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater. There are many limits to legal rights, and smoking is now rightly one of those things in which limits have been place. It isn't about being PC or UN-AMERICAN.

As far as the warnings go, they have not always been there. Also, for a long time the tobacco companies denied their own findings on the addictive quality of smoking and perjured themselves in courts and in congress. They were guilty of lying about the health issues related to their own product, and they deserve the lawsuits brought against them. However, anyone who started smoking after the warnings were put in place has no legal stand.

As far as it be a "tradition" to smoke in a bar, I say so what. Slavery use to be an American tradition, so should it not have gone away? Paying women and people of color less money for the same job a white man would do was a traditional practice among businesses, so should it be allowed today?

Finally, I watched my sister die of lung cancer earlier this year. Yes, she did smoke -- having started when she was a teen working as a waitress back in the days when four out of five doctors recommended Camels. She tried to quit many times through the years, but was never successful. Lung cancer is real, and supporting the tobacco industry in their drive to get as many people hooked and to keep them hooked is just plain ignorant.

We are winning the war against tobacco, whether you like it or not.

Dani Davey 11 years ago

To all the smokers who keep telling non-smokers to quit whining and stay home:

Quit whining about not being able to smoke and stay home.

Topside 11 years ago

TOB-What about my war to find an Abba Zabba this side of Branson, MO? There is a little candy store that sells them. Obviously, nobody cares about my snack attack. First, White Castle closes up shop in KC then no Abba Zabba! Is Big League Chew next?

Manson 11 years ago

"Finally, I watched my sister die of lung cancer earlier this year. Yes, she did smoke -- having started when she was a teen working as a waitress back in the days when four out of five doctors recommended Camels. She tried to quit many times through the years, but was never successful. Lung cancer is real, and supporting the tobacco industry in their drive to get as many people hooked and to keep them hooked is just plain ignorant." -Beatrice

This is where you have it all wrong B. We aren't supporting the Tobacco companies. We are supporting the INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT to choose for themselves or be in the presence of any environment they wish. It's a tradgedy about your sister....same goes for my Grandfather but people make their OWN decisions and the education out there today reflects the positive trend of fewer smokers but as long as this is the USA My right to allow smoking on MY property that I pay for with MY money should NEVER be legislated when it is not required for anyone to be there.

You are taking your personal tradgedies and the subsequent feelings and pushing them on everyone else. Poor decisions by others should never motivate you to dictate your will when freedom of choice is involved.

Manson 11 years ago

"As far as it be a "tradition" to smoke in a bar, I say so what. Slavery use to be an American tradition, so should it not have gone away? Paying women and people of color less money for the same job a white man would do was a traditional practice among businesses, so should it be allowed today?"-Beatrice

That is the dumbest analogy I have ever seen. Your classification of "tradition" is rediclous. You are reaching B and it shows.

bobfreeman 11 years ago

The ban is exactly what the spandix-coated, early-to-bed, "my child is an honor roll student", get-your-hippie-ass-outta-my-town-you're-a-disgrace-and-scaring-the-children type of folks needed in order to feel safe when they passed (not entered) a bar (and America is better because of it). Many a compromise was offered but, they stayed the course. Spewing sudo-facts regarding the health risks from wearing stinky clothes, all the while promising that no bar would be left behind, how they would gladly fill those vacant chairs and bar stools with $$ as soon as the smoke just watch, we're gonna finally be able to take the kids out for a decent meal at Stu's.

So, now we stand on Mass St., half drunk, stomping non-filter Lucky butts into the sidewalk while tourist's wander about feeling tricked by the stories told of how woderfully quaint downtown Lawrence is.

Maybe we should put more emphasis on "Lawrence. City of the Round-a-bouts".

beatrice 11 years ago

TOB: You are correct. I shouldn't have used the word "war." It was meant as a closing statement to point out the fact that standing on the side of pro-tobacco (i.e. pro-cancer) is a losing proposition. I guess it was driven in part from my reflecting on my recently departed sister. Sorry it made you miss the actual context of the post.

italianprincess 11 years ago

TopSide........Party America has them. I bought some the last time I was there. They are the little ones ( bite size ), but can't remember how much they cost.

As far as the question for the day.......Smoking ban says don't smoke inside, so I guess after hours would be included in that. Sorry guys and gals, you will have to stand outside like the others do.

TGIF to all of you in here and have a great weekend.

Manson 11 years ago

"They did it because they could. And they did. End of argument."-Even money

Are you F-ing serious? is this how you want your local government to govern?

beatrice 11 years ago

I have the INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to breath clean air, even at WORK. PERIOD. (And what is with all this YELLING today? I can hear you, already.) This isn't about my personal grief, as I was against smoking in enclosed, public places long before my sister was diagnosed with lung cancer. As far as my analogy of traditions, I think it is ridiculous to suggest that just because people have traditionally smoked in bars we should allow it to continue. That is the point, not that the analogy be taken literally.

Also, the ban is not going away, so nanananana. : )

bobfreeman 11 years ago

even_money -- We had our own contingency. It had no effect on the outcome. The commish had their mind set on kicking smoker's to the curb, with no "exit strategy" for where those disgarded butts would be put, how to handle public drunkeness now that they forced it onto the streets (sorry, folks didn't quit smoking and drinking because of the ban) or the monetary effect it would have on not only the bar itself, but the vendors who tend to the machines in those bars.

This "talk to the hand" crap I get from ban-supporter's and folks who defend/use the same retoric as you with the "get over it" line remind me of screaming, kicking children who put their hands over their ears because what they're hearing trumps their illusions of rationale' with real life stories. The ban hurt local, independent business owners and took away their right to compete in a (once) fair marketplace. If folks are sooooo concerned with health issues, let them go outside and enjoy the fresh air.

Keep the restaurant's smoke free...that's fine. But, friend, it's not day's not the's a bar.

bobfreeman 11 years ago

"Adapt"? That's odd, Darwin asked that I evolve. And with that evolution I developed a 'free will'. I've been nothing but a problem since.

beatrice 11 years ago

Rectal Snuff -- great name for a punk band.

bobfreeman 11 years ago

That's bad for your teeth......take it outside.

Linda Aikins 11 years ago

You are just the most fun people I've ever not met. Have a great weekend! I too am on the road from KC to Lawrence because of the same job thing!

Richard Heckler 11 years ago


Lung cancer can be a result of smoking or exposure to second hand mother in law does have a sister who smokes frequently. My father in is 80's smokes lots and according to him no traces of cancer. My father is not allowed to smoke inside the apartment complex. Obvoiusly some are luckier than others. Yes lung cancer has other sources.

Indoor public smoking is banned not elsewhere. As I watched this process the fact that there were basically so so few calls for a compromise was a bit surprising. Now that it's been in effect for some time it would receive strong support if put to a vote .

Smokers may want to consider increasing their intake of cruciferous veggies and blueberries. Aloe vera is something to consider as well in the form of juice 2 or 3 times a day...the leaves are a delicacy.

As I said before cancer treatment is painful,depressing,very expensive and long term. Additionally Ambrotose is on my list although not a smoker you just never know. The after taste of smoking each following morning was unbearable for me.

bugmenot 11 years ago

What about home based businesses??? Should you not be able to smoke in them after you have closed???

b_asinbeer 11 years ago

dotteboy...Sarah Holswade a goddess? Are you sure you're looking at the right picture?

L8MDL 11 years ago

Beatrice - Where exactly does the constitution say you have "the INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to breath clean air, even at WORK. PERIOD." Seems to me your rights do not trump my rights!! You certainly have the right not to frequent any establishment where I am smoking, just as I have the right to not go into your fern bar. You are also free not to work at any establishment that I own where I do not enforce the smoking ban (it's in my interviews and NON-smokers DO NOT get hired, PERIOD). This arguement has been twisted by the "second hand" gang who allege that my co-workers (all of whom are smokers, by the way) need to be protected by "the Government". It really is just another example of individuals giving up their rights to let the government (at whatever level you want) decide what you can or can't do in your life. As for me - I'll be smoking in your bars and risk the ticket. It'll be a good start for a constitutional challenge.

bobfreeman 11 years ago

Merrill -- There we many compromises offered, from low interest loans (gleaned from cig tax $$) to business owner's so they could upgrade exhaust sytems, smoking & non-smoking time slots (sure the smell bothers some but, the arguement is about health issues, not ambiance), non-smoking in restaurants / smoking bars (since a number of bars don't serve food but are affected by the ban), establishments posting signs declaring wheather the are smoke friendly or not......and the list goes on. What happened is that none of these offers were considered. The forces behind the ban didn't want or seek a compromise, they wanted only one smoking anywhere....period, promising to fill those vacant chairs and tables when the smoker's left. That has yet to happen in any of the places I frequent. They lied. Their cause was supported by second-hand smoke "facts" that were contrary to the World Health Organization's findings. The ban has hurt businesses and the vendor's who supply them. It's promises of a fresh, vitalized customer base never developed (which was already evident by the non-patronizing of existing non-smoking establishments). Keep the ban in restaurants, remove it from bars. Let the owner's decide what's good for their business, not special interest groups. Besides.....the good air is outside so, why kick smoker's out ? Just sit the non-smoker's outside in the fresh air.......oh, wait......too cold and rainy. Exactly. How about accomodating whomever ends up out there ? Again, no considerations for that either. This thing was just another heavy-handed move by those lacking the ability to live alongside elements of society they have deemed "unacceptable". What's next ?

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