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Should there be a constitutional amendment banning the desecration of the American flag?

Asked at Massachusetts Street on June 23, 2005

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Photo of Hung Truong

“Yes. The flag represents our country, and they shouldn’t let people destroy it because that symbolizes them wanting to destroy our country.”

Photo of Joe Orosco

“No. It’s freedom of speech. Even if it may be disagreeable to some, it’s still a valid form of protest.”

Photo of Robyn Tackett

“No. Expression is what makes America what it is.”

Photo of Michelle Young

“No, because that’s freedom of expression. If you disagree with something and that’s the way you want to express yourself, you should be able to.”

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Comments

Richard Heckler 9 years, 6 months ago

The answer is absolutely not.

As of now most all of american flags are made in China where most of the good paying blue collar jobs went.

Hanging the flag upside down,a peace sign where the stars are located or burning the flag have all been symbols of unrest. There is plenty of unrest in the USA.

This is just another means of distraction and/or others trying to prove they are the more patriotic giants of time which is bogus. Some of the people behind the move break campaign laws,lied about WMD's and have no respect for other world leaders. They also commit adultery and rip taxpayers off through the war for oil. This is an attempt to cover up the killing of so many people in Iraq including some americans. Remember this group wants to funnel your tax dollars over to Wall Street. This is the group that sent our soldiers into war without proper bullet proof vests and in way too many case relatives had to buy and ship these vests to their loved ones.

Yep another huge distraction coming from Karl Rove/GW Bush/Dick Cheney. THEY lied to the world about Iraq. These people are liars and stealing taxpayers money and giving it to the likes of Halliburton,Kellogg,Root and Brown, Blackwater Inc. etc. etc. etc. The real patriots got killed or are currently fighting in Iraq for oil.

I'll bet Tom DeLay is on top of this one yet another sleaze bag who happens to be from Texas. Instead of an amendent all of those mentioned above should be run out of Washington DC and take all of their like minded pals with them.

Richard Heckler 9 years, 6 months ago

Most of the above named I was tempted to characterize the sleazebags who want to create a distraction as Republicans however that would be an insult to the real republican party.

mefirst 9 years, 6 months ago

By the way consumer1, I'm a veteran, and so is my husband. I thought veterans were defending the rights contained in the Constitution, i.e. Freedom of Speech...not the flag.

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 6 months ago

No. And while we are on this subject...The best way to prove our patrotism and support our troops is to impeach Bush and throw Cheney out too. The Downing St. memo proved what I had suspected all along..his whole goal in obtaining office was to attack Iraq. I will never understand it..Clinton lied about a BJ for God Sakes and we were ready turn burn him at the stake and Bush lied and has gotten about 1700 fine young people killed over there so far and most of us seem okay with it. I just don't even begin to understand.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

Absolutely not. As we begin hacking away at our fundamental freedoms, where will it end? (And my ex-Marine extreme patriot friend would back me up on this one!)

tell_it...I sure hope you are being sarcastic about the Bush/Cheney thing but something tells me you are not. and if so, what are you smoking? Sorry, I can't believe that one... but I also don't believe we've ever been to the moon!

average 9 years, 6 months ago

No... if your patriotism is offended by other peoples' actions, it's a damn weak patriotism.

No... if Old Glory is to stand as a symbol of freedom to unfree people around the world, that needs to be associated with the freedom of her own people to denigrate it. The second someone is arrested for flag-burning, people seeking freedom elsewhere must find some other icon.

No... This amendment looks awful compared to the first ten. Most of the other (active) amendments grant freedoms and rights to the people. To abridge Jefferson's freedom of speech for this is petty, sad, and a horrible precendent. What speech will be banned next?

No... I'll agree with numerous Judeo-Christian-Muslim groups through time... enshrining legal protection on the flag does create a graven idol that we bow ourselves down to (2nd commandment).

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 6 months ago

And one more thing. I am suspecting more and more that Bush/Cheney were somehow involved in the Sept 11 attack. Its hard to think of I know. But consider how it helped his struggling presidency and how it worked to whip up our patrotic fevor so that we would be primed to go to war. Kind of makes you wonder.

mefirst 9 years, 6 months ago

If they're going to pass that amendment, they should make every "desecration" illegal i.e. flags on paper plates, flags on bumper stickers, flags airbrushed onto the back windows of pick-up trucks, flags that are faded and tattered, flags hanging out in the rain...But, that'll never happen because this nation's "patriots" are making a killing off exploiting the flag for their own economic gain. Just imagine how much money has been spent buying crap with the flag splashed all over it, just so people can demonstrate how superficially patriotic they are. Republicans are such hypocrites.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

comsumer1, I (probably like most Americans) can't stand to see one of our flags being desecrated. Would probably never do it. Would probably stand up and at least try to defend the good 'ol USofA. But our freedoms are exactly what this country is all about. Take away our freedoms and we might as well be living in one of those countries run by tyrants.

Look at all the flag burning that went on in the 60's. Did that make our country any less strong? Did burning all those bras make womens breasts any less symbolic than what they are?

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

Sorry consumer1, this "freakin liberal" has proudly defended your right to desecrate the flag in three different decades and has worn the uniform of a Marine and a Army Reservist. I support our troops as a Marine for Life, Mantattanville's "My Soldier" program, and offer pro-bono tutoring in my field to transitioning servicemen and servicewomen. I have read H.R Res. 4 and think it violates the First Amendment - so there.

But while I'm fixing labels - I'm a Kansas "left-wing Liberal", a California "middle of the road Moderate", and a Berkley "right wing Conservative". It kind of depends on your reference point doesn't it?

mr_daniels 9 years, 6 months ago

Not in my precence OK? Pass the Amendment!

Topside 9 years, 6 months ago

NO, I think if you are stupid to burn anything in public than go right ahead. I hear that the "no eybrows" look is coming back.

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

Definately NO!!! I'm proud to be an Amerirican where THANKS TO THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM we can do what ever we want!! If we make it unconstitutional to burn the flag what will be next? Now I'm not saying I would ever burn a flag, unless in a proper ceremony (Yes the kind were a flag is retired, the only time a flag should be burned). But this will open up too many other little things we take for granted. What if they decide you can't get one washed well that means no more t-shirts or even the patch on a soldiers uniform. This is a very VERY bad idea!!

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 6 months ago

sunflower..no I'm not being sarcastic or smoking anything. Its some thing I've wondered about for a while now.

Larry 9 years, 6 months ago

Yes! Pardon this old expression, but isn't burning the flag a lot like cutting off the hand that feeds you.

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

Wow - am I getting an eye-opener this morning! I am shocked. I always thought that ALL you americans were extremely patriotic and would never, ever dream of doing something so unpatriotic (IMHO) as burning the symbol of your country that you all seem to love so much. I seem to have got it all wrong. Please don't take this comment as a criticism. It is not. I am trying to understand the above posts. A lot of strong feelings are showing here. Some of you new posters may not know that my sister is American and I visit her frequently and I see flags flying at homes every where. That must mean something to the people displaying them. My sister is on the National Exec. of the Am. Legion Aux. and seems to me to be very patriotic and would never, ever burn her flags. She is very protective of them. The reason for my shock I think has a lot to do with the fact that we in Canada are so different. We do not fly our flag on our homes. Well maybe the odd one. On gov. buildings, yes. I always admired you americans for your love of country and wished that our people were more so inclined. Let me see if I have this correct; some are saying that if the law says you will be punished for burning your flag, it means that one of your freedoms has been taken away. There are many retrictions on your and our freedoms, why is this one so important? Can anyone help me here?

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

This freakin Liberal has defended the COUNTRY not any freakin' flag. gimmee a break. Once again, the right has decided to make an issue of this in order to whip up patriotism and make us forget that we have bogged down in Iraq and the growing economy is benefitting the few.

Those of you who are offended by the desecration of the flag had also better be offended by the desecration of our constitution by the corporate interests that run our government.

I will burn a flag on the steps of the Capital and I dare one of you big mouth conservatives to stop me.

crohan1978 9 years, 6 months ago

I say no, but I do have to say, anyone who is burning the flag is an idiot, because they're burning the one thing, that represents the freedom that gives them the right to burn the flag. That is pure stupidity, simple as that!!

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

ms_Canada - I think most of the posters here will continue to respect the U.S. Flag with or without the amendment. The issue to me is one of violation of our American First Amendment rights to freedom of expression. In some ways our right to free speech is one thing our flag stands for and free speech includes (at present) the right to burn the flag. It is one of the rights very few other countries have. Can you burn the Queen in effigy without committing les majesty? I'm pressed for time here but we Americans are very protective of our right to express our dissatisfaction with the way things may be going in our country and thus we error on the side of complete free expression.

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

OK - I think I have it figured out. The flag is the symbol of your country. The gov. represents your country. So when I see a flag on someones house, it means that those within respect the gov. and the country, right? If that person takes that flag down and burns it on their front sidewalk, they are showing contempt for the gov. Right? But not necessarily for their country, I would think. Sooooo, when BunE burns his flag on the steps of the Capital, he is showing extreme contempt for those within that building, right? OK, I think I have it. Don't take my freedom of expression away.

jayhawktownie 9 years, 6 months ago

mefirst and BunE hit the issues at hand right on the head here. This is a fabricated "issue" that the majority of American's do not talk about under their own initiative. Conservatives bring an issue like this to the forefront to villify those who believe in the freedoms of the Constitution and to paint themselves as passionately patriotic. It also serves, just like gay marriage did in the election, to distract from legitimately relevant points of debate. Honestly the right to burn a flag isn't that important to me. I don't plan on doing it anytime soon. If it was made illegal i could probably come up with some other way to show my displeasure with the government. The part that disgusts me is that our government is spending time and money on what should be a non-issue.

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

I think all would agree that currently, before the amendment passes, if it does, the bill of rights guarentees freedom of expression insomuch that it protects the right to burn the flag. So, it would require a constitutional amendment to restrict the first amendment right, which is exactly what they are trying to do. Although the framers of the Constitution included the bill of rights so that the majority would be prohibited from making laws that infringed the rights of the minorities, they did have the foresight to see that times might change and it might be the will of a very large majority of the people to change the constitution itself and provided for that possibility by setting up procedures for amending the Constitution. It is difficult to get the number of votes you need for an Amendment to pass and justifiably so. But, we entered in to this contract, the Constitution, by a majority of votes from the delegates to the Constitutional Congress, and we have the right to change it by the rules laid out. So, people on both sides of the issue stand on solid ground as far as the legality goes. It is really just a matter of opinion, and whoever loses needs to remember that as citizens of this country we are united through the Constitution and need to respect the voice of the people even if we don't agree with everything that is being done. We are always free to try to gather the public opinion to make or repeal Amendments if we don't like them.

As far as the question goes, I think it is rather despicable to mock something that is held so sacred by some. Just as despicable as throwing crap on the Quran or Bible. But, as the Constitution stands right now, I will respect your right to burn the flag. But, I have no problem if that right is restricted through a Constitutional Amendment either.

Jayhawk226 9 years, 6 months ago

Politically and socially I tend to definitely sway to the left...

...but sometimes I wonder if an outward ban on the destruction of the American flag is certainly warranted. Freedom of speech and expression can be exercised in so many ways.

Why choose to not protect the American symbol, just as we already do for all the other federal and state buildings and landmarks?

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

ms canada - the above link that I cited also has a section on "informal amendments," which is a misnomer, but it describes how the Supreme Court can change the meaning of the Constitution through their interpretation. It basically amounts to clever word play. If you have ever heard of "activist judges," or have wondered why so many are up-in-arms over the replacement of Supreme Court justices, it is because their philosophical leanings in effect change law without having to go through the difficult process of passing a bill through the legislature. An example of this is Roe vs. Wade, which upheld a woman's right to an abortion over a fetus's right to live. It could have easily been ruled the other way if the Supreme Court had more conservative justices.

Liberty 9 years, 6 months ago

No. The Constitution is a list of restrictions on government, and setting up the structure and scope of government. The Constitution was not designed to be restrictive against the people by restricting people's God given rights, because governments main job is to protect and defend peoples God given rights (That is why we have government). This amendment would be an attack on the freedoms of the people as stated above. It is an attempt to further corrupt the Constitution in a twisted way that sounds patriotic but is really another layer of dictatorship.

chevygal 9 years, 6 months ago

Hung Truong is the only one that is right....umm ok if u dont like our flag n what it stands for then u dont DESERVE to have the freedoms it represents!

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

enochville I have a question for you since you seem to be very sensible: What about burning a flag in the proper retiring ceremony? If this passes how will it effect that?

average 9 years, 6 months ago

Quoth enochville:

We are always free to try to gather the public opinion... (unquoth)

That is, until they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting you from gathering public opinion. And, if you believe that rights only come from the Constitution, not from innate freedom of conscience, such an amendment will be passed sooner or later.

I know it seems like I'm pushing the slippery-slope argument a bit much... but here it applies. The first amendment grants an absolute freedom of speech. We've restricted it before, despite the Constitution. But, we've never amended the Constitution to specifically prohibit a form of expression. Once people find out that they can amend the constitution to harass minority rights, they will. If you can get 2/3rds of the states to agree to that non Pauline-Trinitarian-Christian prayer was illegal, you could put in in the Constitution, and no power of the Supreme Court could override it.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

this is not a surprising response from the population of douglas county. it is the same population that voted for gay marriage. i tell you this much. just because they say you cannot burn an american flag is not infringing on your rights as an american. get over it, as far as i am concerned, if you are burning the flag then you are unamerican and should move out. Mark my word, i am going to keep a fire extinguisher in all my vehicles were ever i go and if i see you sorry excuses for americans burning my flag, desecrating my country, slapping every veteran that has ever fought for our freedom burning that flag, you are going to get doused with fire extinguisher, becasue you will not burn my flag, my sign of freedom.

acg 9 years, 6 months ago

If we start banning flag burning, which to some is their freedom of expression, where do we stop? Do we stop protesters that have anti-governmental views? This one is obvious. It's a slippery slope and once you start down it it's hard to stop. I, personally, don't understand the whole flag burning thing. I don't understand how those that participate in that form of protest feel that their message is getting across, but I do feel like we should all protect their freedom to do it.

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

Here is the text of the Act. I see no provision for the proper retiring ceremony. It appears that it would still be legal since one would not intend to provoke violence or disrupt peace, or convert the flag to your own use by retiring it.

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Flag Protection Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. PROTECTION OF THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

(a) In General- Section 700 of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`Sec. 700. Protection of the flag of the United States

`(a) Actions Promoting Violence- Any person who destroys or damages a flag of the United States with intent to provoke imminent violence or a breach of the peace, and in circumstances reasonably likely to produce imminent violence or a breach of the peace, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

`(b) Damaging a Flag Belonging to the United States- Any person who steals or knowingly converts to his or her use, or to the use of another, a flag of the United States belonging to the United States and intentionally destroys or damages that flag shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

`(c) Damaging a Flag of Another on Federal Land- Any person who, within any lands reserved for the use of the United States, or under the exclusive or concurrent jurisdiction thereof, steals or knowingly converts to his or her use, or to the use of another, a flag of the United States belonging to another person and intentionally destroys or damages that flag shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

`(d) Construction- Nothing in this section shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of Congress to deprive any State, territory, possession, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico of jurisdiction over any offense over which it would have jurisdiction in the absence of this section.

(e) Definition- As used in this section, the termflag of the United States' means any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, in a form that is commonly displayed as a flag and would be taken to be a flag by the reasonable observer.'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for chapter 33 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking out the item relating to section 700 and inserting in lieu thereof the following new item:

`700. Protection of the flag of the United States.'.

SEC. 3. SENSE OF CONGRESS.

It is the sense of the Congress that the States should enact prohibitions similar to the provisions of this Act in an order to provide the maximum protection to the flag of the United States.

Redneckgal 9 years, 6 months ago

No on the amendment. Thats not to say I think its right. But I agree with so many others that this issue is just a smoke screen to divert public attention away from issues that are so much more important. More and more lately I find my self questioning this administarion and their motives in doing almost everything.

chevygal 9 years, 6 months ago

the only way i think its ok to burn the flag is if it hits the ground..thats it..other than that noone in our country should want to burn it

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

Be honest, how many of you have actually burned a flag. I am guessing and hoping, very few of you. Are you really going to be hurt by this, come on, you are being ridiculous. They would pass this and you would never even hear about it. And for the person who said this is just a smoke screen, come on. At this time, the shape our country is in, this is important, there is no more patriotism, this country is so separated. I think this would be great to unite the pople. To know that everyone can burn the flag, that is just dividing. This is what going to happen, when everyone will know that they can burn the flag, all protests are going to start including that, even when the protests have nothing to do with flag burning. Abortion, lets burn a flag, Gay marriage, lets burn a flag, the war, lets burn a flag. If you burn a flag, that means you are unamerican, and you should move to another counrty and see how much freeedom you have there. Just because they say you cannot burn a flag is not going to change you pathetic little lives in the least bit.

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

Sorry to all, I quoted the wrong bill above. Here is the actual text for the amendment:

JOINT RESOLUTION Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:

`Article --

`The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.'. Passed the House of Representatives June 22, 2005.

average and acg (and any one else who subscribes to the sipperly slope idea): First, I don't think this amendment will pass, judging by how unpopular it is and how very difficult it is to get the votes to pass an amendment. So, it is a moot point. I agree that this proposed amendment is a waste of time and a distraction.

Lastly, I quote average "That is, until they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting you from gathering public opinion." I think that is highly unlikely, being that it would be so difficult to get the great majority of Americans to feel that way. But, if they did, it would be their legal right to. I think if they ever decided to reduce freedoms that much, it would be time to move or cause a revolution.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

If you are willing to burn a flag You are no better than the terrorits and scum who burn our flags in other countries. I can deal with that because they are not american and it has no meaning to them. Maybe you all can just go to all the flag posts and start pulling down the flags and burning them. I just dont see how you all feel this is infringing on you freedoms. it is not like they said you cannot wear the color blue, you cant use your cell phone no more. cannot drive your car. get real

acg 9 years, 6 months ago

Uh, topflight, I think you're missing the point. It's not about whether or not this amendment is going to affect my daily activities. It's about whether or not I, and many others, believe that the government should be banning any form of freedom of speech or expression in direct conflict with the 1st amendment in the bill of rights. Do you honestly feel so strongly about this flag burning thing that you would have them place a constitutional ban on it? Stop thinking about it like a conservative or a patriot but like an American. A true American. That whole land of the free thing mean anything to you at all?

redmorgan 9 years, 6 months ago

I find it interesting that the first amendment can be twisted in a way to accomodate treason, which is what flag burning amounts to. I may be old fashioned... I just have a STRONG aversion to flag burning and to anyone who would be so disrespectful as to participate in it.

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

topflight - if you wish to unite people and to counter the polarization this country is so full of, I wouldn't threaten assault on those currently excorcizing a right currently considered legal. The Supreme Court ruled flag burning is free speech. You don't currently see people burning flags at pro-choice rally's. I don't have a desire to burn anybody's flag but it's the "slippery slope" of restricting the First Amendment that worries me.

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

Just for future reference, an excellant site for looking at the actual text of a bill is: http://thomas.loc.gov/

And an excellent site for info on how your representatives are voting, proposals coming to the floor for a vote, how to contact your congressman, info on local candidates for local elections, etc. is: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Topflight you are a puppet that has fallen for the party line about America. It is possible to love and hate the country you are in. I suppose that your mate has nothing about them that you despise? You are also using hyperbole and hysteria to make a really weak point. Why would anyone pull down someone elses property and burn it?

If you believe that burning an American flag makes you a terrorist than you have one of the most simplistic views of the world ever. The Flag is a symbal and as such burning it is as well. You can disagree, but you are plain naive and foolish if you believe that America can do no wrong and by extension, protesting the faults of America by burning a flag somehow hurts or defames this country. Quite the opposite. It strengthens and maintains our republic.

I will fight for your right to call liberals names, own a .50 caliber, travel all over, listen to crappy music and eat at McDonalds but I will NEVER backdown from protecting the right of expression, especially when it comes to showing displeasure in our leadership.

to paraphrase Winston Churchill: Democracy is the worst sort of government, except for all the others.

If you can't deal with an opposing viewpoint, controversial expression, or just plain thoughtful discourse...beat it.

luminare 9 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

gccs14r 9 years, 6 months ago

Topflight, be prepared to eat that fire extinguisher if you try to use it to deny me my right to protest the government.

gccs14r 9 years, 6 months ago

Tom_Foolery,

Not everyone who believes in the First Amendment is averse to the Second. Personally, I think anyone with the scratch should be able to buy anything in the arsenal, perhaps with the exception of NBC weapons, which I think no nation should have.

gccs14r 9 years, 6 months ago

one_more_bob,

It wasn't just whole weapons, but also modifications to existing weapons that were covered by the ban. My pre-ban Mini-14 has a pistol-grip stock, muzzle brake, and bipod, all of which became illegal to add to identical weapons produced after the ban. The ban was the result of emotion, rather than sound policy. Gun regulations serve only to limit the rights of law-abiding citizens, since the criminals will do what they want regardless of the law.

Ragingbear 9 years, 6 months ago

I think that a once popular phrase applies to this. "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

i cannot believe you all really feel like your rights are being taken away from you. most already state that they dont burn flags. so someone telling you that you cannot do something that you already do not do does not make any sense. if you fell you need to have the right of expression to burn a flag, go somewhere were it does not mean anything to anyone. See what a a WW2 vet thinks of you burning a flag.

by the way gccs14r, i am serious in my extinguisher comment. if you have the right to burn my flag, i have the right to spray you and make sure you are okay. and then maybe throw you in the kansas river to make sure you are not on fire. becasue i would not want you to accidentally ignite yourself when you are burning my flag. and then as my right not throw you a life vest or call 911 you jsut tell me were you are going to be buring my flag and we will see who eats what, i will be there. along with many other.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

i agree, bunch of hippies. maybe they will burn the flag beside the honk for hemp guy. i bet they would not be for me burning his flag.

crohan1978 9 years, 6 months ago

I also should have the right to kick your a** if I see you desecrating the flag. I agree, no law, but like I said in an earlier post, your an f'n idiot if your desecrating the flag, the one thing that represents the freedom you have to even desecrate the flag!! If I catch someone burning it, they'll be sure to hear from my fist, thats my right as a proud American.

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

Ok guys according to Webster's the definition of desecrate 1: to violate the sanctity of 2: to treat disrespectfully, irreverently, or outrageously

That being said what if the government finds that your rearwindow flag shade on your pickup truck is desecration or your T-shirt being washed!!

Many of you have said ask a Vet well ask a Vet if because this passed how he feels that now our Flag can't be worn on a soldiers uniform because to wash that uniform he would desecrate the flag!!

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

They aren't gonna get it...Can we talk about masturbation now?

P.S. I personally find it offensive when people slap the ol' Stars and Stripes on anything just to make a buck. Talk about desecration!

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

And just to give you something to think about if it passes what would you do if say on the 4th of July at a celebration a little kid with a small flag drops it or spills ice cream on it and is then ARRESTED for desecrating the flag. A little extreme I know but it COULD happen.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

well happy_me, most hippies dont wash their t-shirts and dont have vehicles so their are no worries. i was kind of hoping that it would have rained at the wakarusa festival so some of you could get showers. "now that is funny, i dont care who you are"

i like your style crohan1978, at least we can agree on not touching our flag.

Richard Heckler 9 years, 6 months ago

For the the record yes I am a vet...thank you.

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

topflight you passed over the fact that a soldier may not be able to wear the flag on his or her uniform!!!

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

I hear Lee Greenwood singing somewhere...or maybe Toby Keith.

How come there can be threats made but I can't talk about the dang rabbit? Unfair!

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

Sooner or later the level of polarization in this country will reach a point of violence. Maybe it will start with flag burning and escalate out of control to riots and death. Will we have another Oklahoma City? Are all of you advocating violence so impulse control lacking that you should be institutionalized? If it were up to me I'd take away your flag and put it up on a high shelf and not let you play with it until you behave in a civilized manner. This isn't the days of John Wayne and "step outside and settle this". The honor of a fair fight was in the days of your fathers. Today's fights are settled with guns and, god forbid, insane humans that blow themselves or somebody else's children to bits. So stop it with the threats - ah heck, ms_canada how cold does it really get in the Northlands?

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

And THANK YOU To all the Vets that have fought so we can speak (type) our opinions

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

Carmenilla - Ok, I don't get the rabbit thing. Does it have anything to do with somebody getting pregnant?

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

I agree Carmenilla it is unfair violence is ok but pleasure is not?!

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

Amen...

(R_U, check yesterday's topic for rabbit info.)

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

Why do we glorify violence but repress our sexuality? I never understood that. I'm a lover not a fighter ;-)

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

Ohhh...well, then...interesting. You pose a valid question for the LJW to address.

Liberty 9 years, 6 months ago

Sounds like the flag has become a sacred cow that is 'holy' to some out there.

Flag worship is idolatry. The definition of idolatry is: Worship of idols (things other than God). Blind or excessive devotion to something.

The flag is a piece of cloth that represents a union of states that have agreed to exist as one nation. Nothing more. It certainly should not be used to put people in jail and destroy families. It is bad law and an even worse proposed amendment.

I don't personnally like flag burning as I find it generally in poor taste, but to make an amendment out of this is foolish and short sighted and not in alignment with the spirit of the Constitution which protects freedoms of speech and desent, and does not give new powers to government that they did not previously have or need. This and the supreme court decision to allow cities to steal private property for corporations is a symptom of too much Federal power in the States due to another short sighted amendment (17th).

wichita_reader 9 years, 6 months ago

Lunch has been over for about thirty minutes now.

GreenEyedBlues 9 years, 6 months ago

Should desecration include slapping a magnetic ribbon on the backs of those large conversion vans filled with litters of at least six Kool-Aid moustachioed children?

This whole ribbon thing kills me. The people that have those ribbons on the backs of their gas guzzling SUV's in the middle of a war for oil are probably the same people that wear those hideous rubber clogs.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

greeneyedblues, just tell me this. did you go to the wakaruse festival. becuase that will tell us everything we need to know.

captain_poindexter 9 years, 6 months ago

Interesting thought:

In 2003, in Virginia v. Black, the Supreme Court upheld by 5 to 4 a Virginia law banning cross-burning on public or private property. The Court reached this result by contending that such expression is a form of terror and intimidation. Just as cross-burning is a particularly henious form of speech, to many flag-burning is as well, but for different reasons. The flag is a uniquely American symbol, which is why it flies over government buildings, is carried into war, and drapes the coffins of those soldiers who died defending us. Sometimes these debates about priorities and so forth are too sterile. My grandfather, a Marine who fought at Iwo Jima and Guam, would have considered this amendment a priority. He saw fellow Marines lose their lives raising our flag over conquered territory.

Don't freak out, I'm not saying that cross-burning is fine, in fact I would find no protection for that kind of conduct just as the supremes didn't. But its worth mentioning.

wichita_reader 9 years, 6 months ago

My vote on the flag-burning amendment is of course "nay," although I'd never burn a flag myself. I prefer to burn more appeasing substances.

The whole flag burning issue should cause everyone to ask themselves one simple question-"why?". I realize it's hard to do after we've all been brainwashed for so long to think that the good ole USA is nothing short of spectacular, but our foreign policy, to put it bluntly, stinks.

Think critically folks, not from your gut.

wichita_reader 9 years, 6 months ago

Hour long lunchbreak. For efficiency's sake, I can close the office door and have it open again in 5 min or less. If I'm feeling frisky, it's a 5-10 min walk to my car and 5-10 min drive home, which leaves me 20-40 min to take care of business with the wife and get back to work. But I'm usually too preoccupied with eating to have any fun.

linux_chick 9 years, 6 months ago

thanks enoch, for the clarification...

While I applaud and sympathize with those who are offended by the burning of our flag, I say 'no,' on the ban.

If something is personally offensive to me, it doesn't necessarily mean it should be illegal; for example, I wouldn't throw people in jail for starting a woman-hater club that denounced my sex as inherently inferior to our male counterparts, simply on the principle that I believe it's important for a person to have the right to believe that.

Besides, sometimes drastic circumstances call for drastic statements to be made. Just because we're Americans, doesn't necessarily mean the country is moving in the right direction. Sometimes powerful statements have to be made to articulate powerful ideas...

Say, hypothetically, a group of zealots successfully legalized slavery in this country. I don't believe it would be out of line or unpatriotic to burn the flag as a statement; not necessarily demonstrating one's hatred of our country, but as a statement: "liberty is dead here."

I don't anticipate this situation happening in this country, but I am glad that I live in a country where we can speak out, through symbol or speech, when things are going amuck.

I believe the accountability help keep us in check.

jonas 9 years, 6 months ago

Topflight: "if you are willing to burn a flag You are no better than the terrorits and scum who burn our flags in other countries."

Now, I don't say this about much, but that is just idiocy. If you can't see the difference, even on an abstract moral level, between killing sentient people who did nothing to deserve it and burning a piece of cloth that some people think is the symbol of freedom (and don't even get me started on our national hubris in even PROCLAIMING that we are THE symbol in this world for freedom) then I can't see how anything is going to convince you of your own mistaken and arrogant viewpoints.

And, as a side note, being better than the other options at anything, including the securing of liberties, doesn't make you by default good at it, just less bad. Perhaps we should adopt the new slogan of: "USA, better than psychotic madmen," and see how it catches on.

The question I have is, if a flag is burned, who is harmed? I say no one, prove me wrong if you care to try. However, if the behavior (where there is no victim) is arbitrarily outlawed, then everyone is harmed. The only thing censorship accomplishes, in any circumstance, is to coddle the mind with false security, which weakens it. Whether you can comprehend, through the haze of insecure patriotism that clouds your judgement, that there are people who will legitimately disapprove of the US or it's govt. or not is not a concern, the only point is that there are, in fact, those people out there, and there are legitimate reasons why they should be. Stripping their power to exclaim their viewpoint does nothing more than leave the rest of us in ignorance of the full scope of reality around us. And they simply have a right to have their opinion heard.

And no, I would not, as a general rule, burn the American flag, because I have great respect for the ideals that our country was founded on. However were this amendment to pass, we would not be deserving, as a nation, to fly it. There is no rational reason to forbid this particular act as hurtful or harmful to anyone, so the only cause I can see for singling this viewpoint out is that it causes some discomfort to certain people(IE, you). Is there a right guaranteeing comfort? If that mentality is legitimized, where does that slippery slope end? How long until the next jump is made to silencing dissenting speech? Where from there?

Ceallach 9 years, 6 months ago

WOW!!! 101 posts and nary a one has been removed. Outstanding!!

captain_poindexter 9 years, 6 months ago

What if the people who were offended by the burning of the flag a special class (as in equal protection speak)? should it be banned then?

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

As long as you are talking about restrictive speech, lets look at the LAW:

Speech regulations must be narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling state interest in order to be sustained as constitutional. Such regulations are known as "content-based" regulations because they aim to restrict the communicative content of the expression. Next, we must look at content-neutral regulations that do not explicitly aim at communicative impact such as time, place or manner regulations or regulations which have an incidental effect on speech. These regulations of speech must be "content-neutral" regulations.

Do you know what that content neutral means?

Regulations must be narrowly tailored to achieve a substantial (or significant) state interest in order to be sustained as constitutional. Incidental regulations are regulations that do not explicitly regulate speech in terms of content, time, place or manner, but still have implications for expression. For example, a law that requires citizens with knowledge about a crime to divulge it to police has an incidental effect on freedom of the press when applied to journalists who have interviewed criminals.

Now, if we change the Constitution, we throw all of this out and move one step closer to a dictatorship. Do not take this lightly. Once we remove freedom of expression in this manner, it would not be to hard to regulate speech that was anti-president (take that bot clinton and bush haters) or anti department of labor.

DO NOT BE FOOLED! This is not about patriotism, this is a power grab to get us to look the other way while they destroy the country.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

For those of you who feel left out of yesterday's "rabbit" topic that Carmenilla so tried to enlighten us with, check out this site:

http://www.adameve.com/product.asp?sc=wase0018&catalog%5fname=adameve&product%5fid=5594&ac=SE5549A

let's see if you ultra conservatives take away my first amendment rights and zap me!

acg 9 years, 6 months ago

LOL. I find it amusing that anyone that doesn't agree with your line of thinking offtotheright is a damned dirty hippy. You have a really narrow minded view of people and their ideals and lifestyles, don't you?!

linux_chick 9 years, 6 months ago

kpippen: I, too, would like to live in a world where everyone agrees in perfect harmonious conformity and where philosophical deviants are purged from society to jail or some other acceptable location where they can no longer harm decent society.

Unfortunately, a document squelched this dream called the Constitution. Something about the protection of personal liberties and human rights.

Thanks for the laugh, though. Never in my life have I been called a hippie.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

BUN E AND JONAS DO YOU REALLY THINK ANYONE WANTS TO READ THOSE LONG AS POSTS. SHUT UP ALREADY AND QUIT COPYING AND PASTING STUFF ON HERE.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

MAYBE I WILL ALSO GO TO A LEGISLATIVE WEB PAGE AND COPY AND PASTE

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

topflight at least BunE and Jonas are pasting thought provoking information where you are just being an A*S

Jayhawk226 9 years, 6 months ago

at least nobody is copy-and-pasting bible verses yet today...

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

If you are willing to burn a flag You are no better than the terrorits and scum who burn our flags in other countries. I can deal with that because they are not american and it has no meaning to them. Maybe you all can just go to all the flag posts and start pulling down the flags and burning them. I just dont see how you all feel this is infringing on you freedoms. it is not like they said you cannot wear the color blue, you cant use your cell phone no more. cannot drive your car. get real

this is not a surprising response from the population of douglas county. it is the same population that voted for gay marriage. i tell you this much. just because they say you cannot burn an american flag is not infringing on your rights as an american. get over it, as far as i am concerned, if you are burning the flag then you are unamerican and should move out. Mark my word, i am going to keep a fire extinguisher in all my vehicles were ever i go and if i see you sorry excuses for americans burning my flag, desecrating my country, slapping every veteran that has ever fought for our freedom burning that flag, you are going to get doused with fire extinguisher, becasue you will not burn my flag, my sign of freedom.

greeneyedblues, just tell me this. did you go to the wakaruse festival. becuase that will tell us everything we need to know.

all posted by topflight

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

Um...I think I am the one that is guilty of copying and pasting. It was relevant though to today's question. I did consider just giving the link, but it seemed short enough. Anyway, I will just give a link if that is the opinion of the group.

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

No I don't even own a pair!! Go back a couple of days and you'll see I was the one that started the discussion on hating the crocs!!

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

enoch I enjoy being able to read the part you feel is informative with out having to go hunt it down via a link

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 6 months ago

Okay tell me this all you right wing patrotic guys. How is that you let your president get away with going to war on false grounds. Getting all these kids killed for no reason and nobody even questioning it? How patrotic is that? If you really support our troops you would be questioning this.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

happy_me, way to cut and paste just like i said before. IF YOU WOULD GO LOOK, ALL OF THOSE ARE SEPARATE POSTS, NOT ONE POST @SS. and to be honest with you, those long posts i never read, no matter how thought proviking they are, although you really have nothing thought provoking to post. by the way, dont you have some protesting to go do today somewhere. HIPPY

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

It's a good thing we live in AMERICA where people can make @sses of themselves!!!

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

Sunflower_Sue, I don't have that model! Maybe its time to upgrade!!

And as far as the trolls on here go at least they can admit that they are narrow-minded. Although the more you bicker with them the worse their tirades become. And its funny that they're complaining about long posts. Sounds like some folks can only handle small bits of information at a time. Reading can be hard for those of you with such narrow minds. All those big words. We know its tough on you. We feel your pain.

prepares for deletion

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Top flight: Ahhhhh, you are an interesting one. It seems that you have no desire to learn and understand the truth. I hope that you can soon emerge from your closeted bunker behind your stockade of shame and confusion. America loves you.

I see why our country is sliding toward the abyss of corporate government. To those of you who care, speak out, no matter your beliefs. honest discourse is the only way to protect the republic. Bullying and calling for changes to the Constitution based on emotion and lies is truly ignorant. Issues like gay marriage, flag burning and evolution are red herrings put forth to keep us from noticing that we have corporations (who can not vote) controlling the congress and presidency, that the pentagon is saying that the insurgency in Iraq has reached the highest levels since the invasion (despite proclamations to the contrary from the White House), and that it took action from the courts to fund our public schools (a legacy that reaches back to the 18th century)

Go ahead and deride my comments, at least I know you can read.

topflight 9 years, 6 months ago

yes, in my bunker with my guns, gas guzzling suv, and my AMERICAN FLAG FLYING HI IN MY FRONT YARD. COME TRY TO TOUCH IT OR BURN IT DOWN AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Um, I like the Flint Hills alot.

Short enough?

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

I think he needs the rabbit where the sun don't shine!

prepares for deletion

happy_me 9 years, 6 months ago

Oh and Yes I am a HIPPY whats your point. if some one would pass it and quit bogartin' maybe I wouldn't be so crabby

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

Ok, now it is getting hostile again. Time to bring up sex. My Grandmother used to become bothered whenever her daughters would argue on long car drives would exclaim "Ohh, look at the sailboats". This in the middle of the prairie, and the absurdity of the remark would stop any argument with the 50's equivalent of WTF?

So..."Ohh, look at the rabbits".

linux_chick 9 years, 6 months ago

what's bogarting? Am I the only one that doesn't know?

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

This is great, I love being threatened! Why would I trespass on your property? I guess I should worry a bit, after all you are threatening to assault people with a fire extinguisher and throw them into the Kaw.

I am very pleased though that you have read my posts. You may have even absorbed a bit of learnin'!

Stay hunkered down. Keep your powder dry and be on the lookout for the roving bands of flag desecrators that are out there looking to burn...burn...burn...

Wait! is that what this amendment is supposed to protect us from? In that case, yes, YES!!!! Pass it!

Are we even having some sort of threat to the flag supplies of the USA?

captain_poindexter 9 years, 6 months ago

so.....the government can prosecute you for burning the flag in your yard (after the amendment passes of course) and then they can take your house without paying you fair market value (according to the great us supreme court today).
that sounds good. real good. thanks ruth ginsburg, souter, kennedy, brier, & stevens. this may be the worst scotus decision in years. think your liberties are getting taken away by an amendment banning burning the flag? check the supremes today. you want a new victorias secret in your town? great, we just have to move those houses over there. Oh, and we don't have to give you fair market value for them. horrible. morons.

linux_chick 9 years, 6 months ago

Ahh... thanx for clarifying for a fellow poster born in the 80s.

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Listen up all, the government is controlled by business.

Bush, Kennedy, Clinton, DeLay, Cheney,

They have sold us all out. They let us pick up the tag for their buddies' failed businesses and they just take from us.

Heck, they defacate on the flag and clean up with the Constitution every day. They fight wars all over the world and we have poverty and crime in country.
LIARS!!!!!!! LIARS!!!!!!! LIARS!!!!!!!

jonas 9 years, 6 months ago

No. nonononononoNONONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!! There should be no argument, or any question about this. This is why we HAVE a bill of rights covering freedom of speech and expression, to protect unpopular viewpoints that don't harm anybody from an overzealous, insecure population or government.

If they ever do pass an amendment against this, that very day I am going to go buy a bunch of flags, arrange them in my driveway, perhaps spelling something clever, and torch the whole lot of them. It would be the American thing to do.

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Topflight: There you go again. This is great stuff.

"I will stop you guarenteed..." (lets work on our spelling a bit)

Oh that is great!

What makes you think that this Lefty won't be ready for you?

remember_username 9 years, 6 months ago

From the 1950's movie HARVEY. "I'd just helped Ed Hickey into a taxi. Ed had been mixing his drinks, and I felt he needed conveying. I started to walk down the street when I heard a voice saying: 'Good evening, Mr. Dowd'. I turned, and there was this big white rabbit leaning against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that! Because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name."

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

I read about the roller derby league in Kansas City. The lead enforcer for one of the teams has a prosthetic arm. It freaks out the other team when it detaches. HELP US JAMES CAAN!

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

Its wasn't Topflight (he likes to yell in caps) who said that. And BunE you are running up against a wall of dumb with this argument. These guys won't be swayed even if W came up and robbed 'em blind himself. They have a limiited capacity for logic.

turns "Do you see that wild roving band of flag-burners coming?"

Troll "Get a rope...."

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

Dude the Roller Derby girls ROCK!!! The one-armed one is my favorite. She's tough. I wish I could remember her "stage name". It was a gooder.

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

I need to look into this whole roller derby thang. I could knock some suckas out! My pops didn't call me "Daddy's Little Linebacker" for nothing.

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Oh, I know I can't change any minds, but I would feel guilty if I did not at least try to let these poor souls in on the truth.

"Get a rope" I love it!

BunE 9 years, 6 months ago

Her name is Dirty Britches, check out the Pitch Weekly website

wichita_reader 9 years, 6 months ago

Uh, I think China got out of check about 750 million people ago.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

OMBob, WE NEED RAIN! (So does the corn) The leaves are starting to curl, they are starting to tassle out, and we are forcasted to have temps in the 90's for the next 2 weeks with no rain in sight.

Pray for rain! There! That is my inclusion of religion for today. Isn't it nice that I live in a country where I can tell people to pray and you can choose to do so or not. AHHHHH, FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wichita_reader 9 years, 6 months ago

. . . and however many nukes ago they possess.

enochville 9 years, 6 months ago

Speaking of China. Way back when Sept 11th happened, before we knew who did it. I feared it was China. My friend ridiculed me for it because he said if the Chinese attacked us it would be from the West. Maybe so, but I did recognize them as a threat even way back then. And by the way, we did go to the moon.

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

remember username - it gets a little cold way up here in the north country, but we have a lot of oil and good furnaces and heaters in our cars and we like it. If you get cold, you can always go outside and shovel some snow, that will sure warm you up. :-) OMB - I don't know what brass monkey's you are talking about, but if they are anything like carmenilla's rabbits, I don't want to know. The only rabbits are the furry kind that inhabit the feeding station in my back yard in the winter and we don't bring them in. :>) I would like to say something about flags. Next post.

Fangorn 9 years, 6 months ago

Wow! Approaching 200 posts and it's not quite suppertime yet. We haven't had a melee like this since the marriage amendment debate.

I lean toward supporting an amendment, but I can see the merit in the arguements against one. But if McCain-Feingold is Constitutional, then a law against flag-burning certainly is. Political speech is already too restricted. I will say, however, that if someone exercised their right to free speech with a burning flag, I'd feel very inclined to exercise mine with a really big, fully-charged fire extinguisher.

BunE: As an aside to the main line of discussion, would you be willing to define "poverty" as it exists in the US? (income level, assets, etc.)

tell_it_like_it_is 9 years, 6 months ago

You go for it offtotheright! I'm sure we'll read all about the riot you start in the LJW tomorrow. By the way is your homeowners policy paid up?

Fangorn 9 years, 6 months ago

ms_canada: The Royal Navy stacked cannon balls on the decks of their ships in small pyramids. To keep these from rolling around as the ship pitched and rolled, the pyramids were stacked on metal plates with small indentations for the bottom layer of cannon balls. These plates were called "monkeys". Other metals corroded in the damp, salty environment of a sea-going vessel. But brass held up in such conditions. However, brass contracts more quickly than other common metals when the temperature falls. Extreme cold would contract the brass monkeys so much that the cannon balls would roll off. Thus the phrase "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" isn't as naughty as it sounds. :)

Fangorn 9 years, 6 months ago

I might ask a flag-burner if their medical insurance is paid up. I wonder if the battery of such a person would be defended in the MSM as the riots and subsequent property damages over OTTR's theoretical sign most certainly would be?

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Did I get it right? What exactly does all that mean to you people? We Canadians don't revere our flag. It is just there, that's all. We don't get our knickers in a twist over it. If you really think about a flag, what is the big deal. OK, so it represents something, right? What? Look up there, why pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth? That's right, you are pledging allegiance to what it stands for. And I guess it stands for many diffenent things to many different people. The those who died for their country's freedom it means one thing, to those who stayed at home it means something else. Just when was your country's freedom ever threatened? By whom? And don't say 9:11. That was really no threat to your freedom. How about Pearl Harbour, was that a threat? Could be. I don't recall that the freedom of my country was ever threatened. No one has ever tried to invade Canada and take away our freedom. If you think about it, the only threat to individual freedom comes from within. Only your governing body can cut your freedom. And do you really think that they give a rats tushy if you protest by burning a flag? The only protest that you can make that they care about is your ballot. Oh and for those waiting for a scripture quote here is the shortest verse in the Bible, "Jesus wept" John 11:35

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

fangorn - now I know. Thanks so much. I got a good laugh too. Interesting things behind some to the sayings we use. :)

captain_poindexter 9 years, 6 months ago

ms_canada. tell poland (and essentially all of eastern europe in the 1930s) that only your governing body can cut your freedom. the wtc was a symbol of freedom, economic freedom, et al. - so the terrorists knocking them down was a threat to our freedom. freedom is a loaded term as well. I can say, freedom from intimidation. so, if I say freedom from intimidation, then it was definitely an afront to our freedoms as americans. If I say, freedom of sitting in my back yard drinking a beer, I'd say you were right about the attacks not really affecting that freedom. to us as americans, the flag does stand for something else. just like a picture of your long-lost grandmother or the momento you got from your first trip overseas, it stands for something we love and care for. I don't know how to explain it to someone who doesn't get it. I'm not in favor of the amendment just because I don't like amending the constitution much. so don't paint me a such.
but the claim that we are just worshiping a piece of cloth is stupid. sorry you don't understand, must be an american thing

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

ms_canada, Driving around Lawrence, I see quite a few Canadian Flag decals on the rear window of cars. Always think of you when I see one. (Seriously!)

BTW, I think brass monkeys were mentioned in one of Diana Galbaldon's books. Also, I have a dictionary of cliches if anybody wants me to look one up. I see that Fangorn is a fellow research junkie.

Carmenilla 9 years, 6 months ago

I thought "Brass Monkey" was a song by the Beastie Boys.

"Brass monkey, that funky monkey!"

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

Tom - you are right. That is exactly why we wore them on backpacks. We got abused when they thought we were americans. Captain - thank you for your post. I was hoping someone would reply. But, I DO understand. In an earlier post this morning, I said as much. I know how you all feel about your country and your flag and your freedom and yes when I mentioned the wtc I was only thinking of physical endangerment. Wrong of me. I have often remarked that there is a tangible feeling in the air in the USofA of that patriotism and I often wish that we Canadians had more of that here. We are too apathetic here. If you read me again, you will see that I said it was NOT the piece of cloth your were pledging to, but to what it stands for. I was not belittling that at all. Sorry if you got that impression. Yes, I stand corrected also, Captain, about Poland and Europe. It definitely was an outside threat there. You could have gone on ad infinitum to quote outside actions that took away freedom. The Babylonians, the Persians and Medes, the Greeks, the Romans, the British, the French, the Spanish, etc etc. The history books are full and overflowing with tales of freedoms being usurped. It is the history of the world, for goodness sake. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I apologize.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

My mother-in-law sent this to me today. Something I have heard her quote before. Don't know who penned it:

He drew a circle and left me out Heretic, rebel, thing to flout But Love and I had the wit to win We drew a circle and took him in

ms_canada 9 years, 6 months ago

sunflower sue - your quotation is from a poem entitled "Outwitted" and the poet is Edwin Markham.

Liberty 9 years, 6 months ago

For those that plan on defending our nation against the terrorist, or flag burners or whatever: Your Senator Pat Roberts that is rewriting the expansion on the Patriot Act has included a gun registry (and eventually confiscation of firearms). Now how American is that??? This is an excerpt from Gun Owners of America on this issue:

People on Capitol Hill seem to think that any "edge" in the war on terror is worth trampling on the rights of law-abiding Americans, no matter what the Constitution (and current law) happens to say.

At issue is a provision in the Patriot Act reauthorization bill (S.1266) authored by Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS).

In short, Sen. Roberts' language would allow the FBI to seize ANY business records it believes would be relevant to an anti-terrorism investigation... without first seeking permission from any court in the land.

Gun sales are business transactions, and FFL holders must retain copies of the 4473 forms (yellow sheets) filled out on every gun sale. Thus, an anti-gun administration could easily determine that such records would be useful in the fight against terrorism, and demand them all. (This is exactly what some of the Democrats were screaming for after 9-11, [which had nothing to do with what happened])... If your an American, you might want to express your polite American outrage to Sen. Pat Roberts about administrative warrants instead of obeying the 4th amendment.

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

Ms_C, Thanks so much! I'm writing that down and will definitely let my MIL know! (I love the smarts of you!)

sunflower_sue 9 years, 6 months ago

Just had some Boursin on Table water crackers...YMMMM!

Now chevre...that's my fav! Used to make my own all the time so would eat it daily. Mastered cottage cheese too, and if you've never had it homemade, you've never really eaten the stuff. My only attempt at swiss failed miserably but I did an OK cheddar. Ricotta was easy and so I made a lot of lasagna.

Tonight's dinner ended with cheesecake, of course!

Tomorrow I think I'll try cheese in my coffee. Any recommendations?

Ceallach 9 years, 6 months ago

Wild board today!

I have never burned a flag or even been present when someone else burned one. Can't believe I ever would. I do believe that ignoring the burners/burnings would do more to stop them than providing multiple opportunities for would-be burners to work themselves into a frenzy defending their first amendment rights. I also couldn't help but notice that both sides want nothing more than to stop the other side from exercising their freedom of speech.

Most veterans recognize that they have fought (or are fighting) for a nation made up of citizens from every possible political persuasion. Yet they continue to fight and die to preserve the freedoms we just spar about on a community board. And, NO, I am not a veteran, but I did sleep with one in a Holiday Inn ;-)

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