Ever wander into your favorite tavern and wonder who might have a gun?

On July 1, a new law went into effect that made it easier for drinkers to carry guns into bars.

Under changes to the state’s concealed carry law, no longer does someone have to go through a permitting process and gun training to be able to put a gun in a jacket pocket or in a handbag and carry it around town.

The law still allows bars– and other private businesses — to put up signs to prohibit customers from carrying concealed guns inside the business.

But many drinking establishments in Lawrence do not post the signs. The Journal-World did a check of more than a dozen of the more active taverns in Lawrence. It found only one had posted the no-guns signs.

Several bar owners, though, said they are implementing policies that would require customers to leave the premises if the bar’s employees notice that the customer is carrying a gun.

“Alcohol and guns just don’t mix well,” said P.J. Mather, manager of Louise’s West. “My plan is to not serve someone who is carrying.”

Some firearm professionals, though, argue the posting of the no guns signs is useful.

Sign or no sign

Jack A. Robinson, a Kansas and NRA instructor who lobbied against dropping the concealed carry permit requirement, said signs provide an added layer of protection for bar customers.

“You walk into a hardware store, they have a sign,” he said. “You would think if you owned a bar, you would want people to know your policy.”

Elliot Fineman, CEO of the National Gun Victims Action Council, a nonprofit network of 14 million gun victims, survivors and others, says that businesses without signs potentially face a significant risk of liability. The group has had research done to try to estimate the liability.

In a memo to Fineman regarding the potential of liability for Kansas businesses, Jerry Palmer, a Topeka personal injury lawyer, said a reasonable estimate for defense of one case could range from $150,000 to $250,000. If liability is found, the judgment value could range from $500,000 to $5 million.

“We believe the (gun law) change creates a realistic risk of injury to employees and patrons and liability to merchants that did not exist before,” Fineman wrote in a letter July 29.

Bars, though, are within their legal rights to ask gun-toting customers to leave, even if they don’t have the no-guns sign posted.

Sgt. Trent McKinley of the Lawrence Police Department said bar owners and managers can ask patrons to leave “for numerous reasons, including possession of a weapon,” McKinley said. “They do not have to have a no-gun sign posted in order to do so.”

McKinley also noted there’s a state law that makes it illegal to carry a weapon while intoxicated. Gun holders violate the law if their blood-alcohol level is greater than .08 percent, which is the same level used in DUI cases for determining if a driver is over the legal limit.

Number of citations minimal

But don’t look for many instances where Kansans have been cited for violating the law. Whether Kansans are just conscientious about not carrying while they’ve been drinking, or whether the law is a difficult one to enforce, is unclear, but state officials said the number of citations under the law have been minimal.

Court records show that no one in Lawrence or Douglas County has been charged with violating KSA 21-6332. Across the state in the last three years, only eight people have been, said Mark Malick, a KBI spokesman.

Violation of the law is a Class A misdemeanor, and if a person is found guilty of being drunk and carrying a firearm, it could result in up to a year in jail and a $2,500 fine.

The law states that a police officer who has probable cause to believe a gun-toter is over the legal limit of .08 can ask the person to submit to breath, blood or urine tests to determine the presence of alcohol.

If the alcohol concentration is .08 or above, the case is prima facie evidence that the person was under the influence of alcohol, according to the law.

If the person tests below .08, that information can be considered with other evidence to determine if the person was under the influence.

Sgt. McKinley said if an individual refuses to take a sobriety test, the officer can place the individual under arrest for the violation if there is enough evidence.

While officers can’t force a person to take a test, they can seek a search warrant to take the suspect’s blood following an arrest.

“Officers would likely go to this extent if the totality of the circumstances warranted such action,” McKinley said.

In addition, the law states that if the court finds that a person refused to submit to testing, the prosecutor can seek a civil penalty not exceeding $1,000 for each violation. That penalty is in addition to any criminal penalties.

No training

The law change on July 1 made Kansas the fifth state to pass what is being called constitutional carry. The new law that ended required permits was controversial mostly because it eliminated a requirement for gun training.

Jack Warner, spokesman for Moms Demand Action, which lobbied heavily against the bill, said a poll by organizations that opposed the bill found 78 percent of Kansans wanted the state to retain the training and permitting process.

“It is basic common sense,” Warner said. “It was a dangerous setback for public safety in Kansas.

Sgt. Kristen Dymacek, the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office spokeswoman, said while the sheriff’s office supports the right of all citizens to have firearms, there are concerns that citizens carrying concealed weapons with minimal qualifications could be a safety risk.

“Under the new law, citizens are allowed to carry a concealed weapon without training, without any identification such as a concealed carry license, and without proper instruction on how to react if they have an encounter with law enforcement while carrying concealed,” Dymacek said. “This could lead to some potential safety issues for everyone involved.”

Robinson said the gun training is one more way to ensure that someone who shouldn’t have a gun doesn’t.

“If we feel that person doesn’t take safety seriously or has a bad attitude or can’t shoot, we had the right to say they can’t have the permit,” Robinson said.

Meanwhile in Lawrence, the bar industry says it will be keeping a watchful eye out for people carrying guns.

“I haven’t seen anyone carrying a gun, but certainly that doesn’t mean that they aren’t,” said Alisha Cronise, a bartender at Harbour Lights in downtown Lawrence.

Some bar owners said they had considered placing the signs at their establishments but were unsure of the proper process.

Eric Berman, who co-owns the Jackpot Music Hall with his wife, said he would like to post a sign but he had recently read that the signs had to meet certain size requirements, and he didn’t know what those were.

“There are right signs and wrong signs,” Berman said. “I probably would if I knew where to purchase them.”

The Attorney General’s Office has sign requirements that can be found here.

Patel Prashant, assistant manager of the Eighth Street Tap Room, also was aware of the new law, and said the bar’s policy was not to serve alcohol to people with guns.

“There are more guns in people’s hands today than there are in the military,” Prashant said. “Obviously we prefer not to have a rumble or tumble especially with guns. It’s never come down to that and hopefully it never will.”

This story has been edited to correct the name of Moms Demand Action spokesman Jack Warner