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Kansas legislature

Kansas Legislature

House rejects exception from abortion restrictions for rape, incest, abuse victims

March 19, 2013

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— The Kansas House on Tuesday rejected a provision that would exempt victims of rape, incest or child sexual abuse from restrictions on abortions.

In proposing his amendment to an abortion bill, state Rep. John Wilson, D-Lawrence, said women and girls in those "horrible, life-changing" situations shouldn't be prevented from getting an abortion.

But state Rep. Lance Kinzer, R-Olathe, and a vocal opponent of abortion rights, said Wilson's amendment would change a decade's worth of placing restrictions on abortion in Kansas.

Wilson's amendment failed on a 31-90 vote.

The discussion occurred on House Bill 2253, a wide ranging abortion bill brought by Kinzer that was given preliminary approval by the House on Tuesday.

Another proposed amendment to the bill, which would have removed language in the bill that tells doctors to provide information about the potential risks of abortion, including breast cancer, failed.

State Rep. Barbara Bollier, R-Mission Hills, and a physician, said there wasn't sound scientific evidence to back up a link between abortion and breast cancer.

"I don't want you at my doctor's appointment telling my doctor what to say," she told the House. But her amendment fell, 50-71.

HB 2253 would prohibit tax breaks for abortion providers, bar women who claim tax deductions for medical expenses from including the cost of an abortion, and prohibit public schools from using sex education instruction from Planned Parenthood.

During debate, the measure prompted general comments on abortion in general.

State Rep. Joe Edwards, R-Wichita, and a pastor, said, "We must stop this genocide that is happening in America."

But state Rep. Carolyn Bridges, D-Wichita, said continued restrictions on abortion won't stop abortions from happening. "You can pass all of the bills that you want to, but abortions are not going to end. What is going to end is the safe procedure that is taking place."

Kinzer said a portion of the bill that states that the life of each human being begins at fertilization will "help set the context for more substantive restrictions in the future."

Comments

msezdsit 1 year, 8 months ago

Government growing at breakneck speed. "Nanny state whiners" are the biggest nannies. Nationally, many in the republican party have begun to see that this radical right wing splinter group of republicans are the problem but we still produce them by the cattle car load in Kansas.

Jock Navels 1 year, 8 months ago

i think i've figured it out. if there are fewer jobs at lower pay and fewer rights with more government control of lives than in Mexico, the aliens will move away. it's a kolbach finesse.

parrothead8 1 year, 8 months ago

If men could get pregnant, Kansas abortion laws would look very different right now.

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

The extreme right seems to feel the need to lie about pretty much everything. Could it be because the truth would show them up for the scared, sad little inadequate men that they are? Laws are the only way they can control women.

And make no mistake, this is about controlling women. Just like rape is. It's all about control.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 1 year, 8 months ago

"The extreme right seems to feel the need to lie about pretty much everything. "

Are they really lying, or are they just that ignorant?

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Charles Fogarty 1 year, 8 months ago

They're lying and they persist in their ignorance.

Randall Uhrich 1 year, 8 months ago

Sadly, the Republican war on women is alive and well in Kansas. Ladies need to quit voting like their redneck husbands.

MYOB 1 year, 8 months ago

Not saying I'm for or against this bill, but shouldn't you realize before 22 weeks that you're pregnant?

msezdsit 1 year, 8 months ago

There are lots of reasons beyond your understanding and that is the problem. Let the people in the situation , who understand their situation, make their decision. People who can't figure out why another person might make the choice they make should not be making that choice for them. Over simplification and ignorance does't justify the idiocy of this bigoted legislature.

chootspa 1 year, 8 months ago

Not if you're a barely pubescent child and pregnant by incest. Not if you're developmentally disabled and were raped by a caregiver in a group home. Such cases may be rare, but they do happen.

chootspa 1 year, 8 months ago

Case in point, a 11 year old in Texas just found out she was 7 months pregnant by a neighbor.

Ken Lassman 1 year, 8 months ago

Yes. You are missing the fact that this type of thinking attempts to legalize oppressing women in Kansas by giving the sperm of criminals higher legal status than the women who are violated.

MYOB 1 year, 8 months ago

So where would you draw the line? Or would you?

rockchalker52 1 year, 8 months ago

Each female should get to draw her own line.

Water 1 year, 8 months ago

Seems to me a lot of people could save themselves from the abortion delimma by getting a tubal ligation or vasectomy after having a kid or two. Why keep going to the Dr. and pharmacy for years? Why keep exposing your body to drugs? Why live with such risk and inconvienence?

Why keep going to Blockbuster Video to get a movie and return the movie and get a movie and return the movie when you can sign up with Netflix one time and be done?

chootspa 1 year, 8 months ago

Seems to me that it's none of your business how they decide on family planning matters.

Water 1 year, 8 months ago

Chootspa, it was a suggestion for some people to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. Tubal ligations and vasectomies are reversable. These are merely options. Your response makes no sense to me given that this ENTIRE ARTICLE is about an aspect of family planning matters.

foxli 1 year, 8 months ago

What about the people who choose to never have children? Doctors refuse to perform sterilization procedures on the childless/childfree as a matter of routine, despite the fact that their patients can leave the office and buy guns, booze, lottery tickets, and vote. Sometimes, exposing ourselves to drugs is the smaller "inconvenience."

nocrybabies 1 year, 8 months ago

I about had a heart attack this morning. When I woke up my watch was running backwards! On the drive to work, I crossed the state line and my watch immediately started running clockwise again. This is gettin' kinda' scary!

Aimee Polson 1 year, 8 months ago

Wow! That's a long commute, all the way to Colorado.

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

In 31 states in this country, rapists can sue for custody and/or visitation of the fruits of their assault. Kansas is one of those states. Given that Mr. Kinzer and his gyno gang want women forced into bearing such children, does he have any plans of introducing legislation to at least cut off the parental rights of convicted sex offenders?

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

Every time I think about this my blood boils. Lance Kinzer; championing rapists, child abusers and sex offenders since 2004!

TinmanKC 1 year, 8 months ago

An appropriate move would be for all doctors to refuse to practice in the state of Kansas where Nanny State Republicans like Kinzer and Edwards can order them to pass along untrue information. Republicans: follow your own campaign promises and get out of our lives!

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

I recently read an article where that is, in truth, happening. ACOG and the AMA are up in arms about the way that, not just Kansas, but other states as well, are intruding into exam rooms and passing laws that force doctors to lie to patients. Kansas further blackened it's eye with the nation's physicians when the legislature came so close to forcing the medical school to lose it's accreditation. This isn't the way to recruit doctors OR medical students.

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

Yeah, if she didn't, she must have enjoyed it.

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

This was in reply to osur 351. Don't know how it got down here.

Stuart Sweeney 1 year, 8 months ago

I did mean that,tongue in cheek to the idiots who passed the bill!

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

As was mine. Being snarky is about the only thing that keeps me sane in this worst of times.

08Champs 1 year, 8 months ago

I read somewhere that if men could get pregnant, there'd be a clinic on every corner and birth control would come in 10 flavors....

cowboy 1 year, 8 months ago

I have had it with these morons in the state house.

Why not try to figure out how to get a title out in less than two months and get a license renewed in under two hours.

Once you get that solved you can go back to vagina regulation. Idiots

blindrabbit 1 year, 8 months ago

And I thought all these right-wing zealots were against more government intrusion into our lives. I can just imagine that if these restrictions were being foisted on women by The Progressives, the Right -wing T-Baggers would call it a form of American Sharia Law.

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

Actually, it's because he had moderate Republicans in the legislature stopping him. After the "Day of the Long Knives" in the Republican Primary last year, when Koch fueled cash bankrolled a Tea Party candidate to go up against every moderate Republican in the state, Charlie and David managed to buy Kansas for themselves.
Every anti-abortion proposal that was introduced into the state legislature last year was stopped in the moderate controlled Senate. Every one of those same proposals and MORE were reintroduced this year with every expectation they will pass.
Welcome to the Teataliban.

SnakeFist 1 year, 8 months ago

This isn't about men controlling women. Its about conservative lawmakers (men and women) imposing their wrong moral and social beliefs on and attempting to control all of us (men and women). This anti-choice legislation is just part of a much larger agenda that includes anti-union, anti-environment, anti-sustainability, anti-homosexual, anti-education, and, of course, pro-gun legislation.

voevoda 1 year, 8 months ago

It's about everything you listed, SnakeFist, and about men controlling women. Even women can advocate policies to control women.

Joe Hyde 1 year, 8 months ago

Let's cut to the chase here: House Bill 2253's real world impact on female citizens capable of bearing children is that Republican conservatives condone rape, incest and child abuse. This bill, if enacted into law, compels female citizens who've been sexually assaulted to have babies they never intended or planned to have.

Every female voter in the state of Kansas should go to the polls next election and throw these fascist pig Republican conservatives out of the statehouse and into the nearest gutter.

Keith 1 year, 8 months ago

"The Kansas House on Tuesday rejected a provision that would exempt victims of rape, incest or child sexual abuse from restrictions on abortions."

Thus assuring a quick smackdown in the courts.

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

Don't be so quick to assume that, Keith. Roe only guarantees the life and health of the mother. The only "rape" exception is that Federal funds may be used to pay for it.

Kat Christian 1 year, 8 months ago

A young woman or adult woman raped by a relative or not should have the choice to decide an abortion and it should be covered under medical insurance. However, if a young woman or adult woman chooses to be careless and choose to have an abortion then no it should not be covered under medical insurance. There is enough education about birth control in this country for woman to know how to protect themselves from getting pregnant. Of course there is always that 1% accident that happens. But if women keep cranking out babies with no forethought of the consequences on society we are going to be in a boat load of trouble with over population.

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

So what you are saying is that you are pro-choice, just pro YOUR choice and not HER choice. I get it.

voevoda 1 year, 8 months ago

You are assuming that birth control is a whole lot more effective than it actually is. Male condoms have a 15% failure rate--that is, 15 out of 100 women who use condoms as a method of birth control during asingle year will end up pregnant. Spermicidal foam has a failure rate of 29%. Diaphrams and cervical caps have a failure rate between 16% and 32%, depending upon whether they are paired with a spermicidal cream. Birth control pills have a failure rate of 8%. Only IUDs and implants have a failure rate of 1%. See:

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/effectiveness-rate-of-birth-control-methods

Multiply the annual failure rate by the number of years that women are fertile--on average, from age 13 to age 51, so 38 years. Subtract the number of years that women choose to be pregnant--2, maybe.

So, sunshine, you need to reassess you contention that only irresponsible women would be getting pregnant regularly. Even when women use birth control, there are going to be huge numbers of unplanned pregnancies. Medical insurance--and public policy--must provide women with ways to deal with them.

Of course, sunshine, if you don't like "women...cranking out babies with no forethought of the consequences on society," you should be 100% in favor of medical insurance covering the cost of abortions.

JayhawkFan1985 1 year, 8 months ago

Sunshine, Of course this bill prevents much of the information prepared by responsible organizations like planned parenthood from being distributed while requiring doctors to provide information that is false or unproven.

voevoda 1 year, 8 months ago

Women's control over their own bodies should not be a matter to be decided by majority vote of the electorate of the state of Kansas. Women are smart enough to decide for themselves, each one of them, whether an abortion is appropriate in her individual circumstances.

jjt 1 year, 8 months ago

Not that any one will pay attention to this posting but for all the women out there who have used or do use an IUD or coil this applies to you. As you would in theory be liable under this law. The coil of course is designed to stop a fertilized egg from implanting in/on the uterus. Thus it follows that women who use a coil would not want to travel in or live in Kansas for fear of prosecution.

I am particularly interested to hear from someone who supports this law and who uses an IUD

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

I neither support this law nor use an IUD, but that is an interesting thought. Transvaginal ultrasounds for all women in or passing through Kansas to discover if they have an IUD.

I've no doubt that outlawing birth control will be the next thing on their agenda. Which is why we need to vote these extremists out in the next election.

grandnanny 1 year, 8 months ago

So women are just cranking out babies - men play no part in this. Maybe the man should take some responsibility also - and stop insurance companies from paying for viagra. What a sexist message you just posted.

Katara 1 year, 8 months ago

It sounds like Lance Kinzer does not know what an ectopic pregnancy is. It also sounds like he has never heard of a molar pregnancy.

It also doesn't sound like Lance Kinzer believes that fetuses can die in utero.

oldexbeat 1 year, 8 months ago

the Guns Over People (or Gonads Over People) party doesn't like women, except for those that say "Yes,' even when unable to speak, passed out on the floor, being banged by all those men that heard some woman say; "Yes, Yes. Take my rights, men. I'm only a woman and I don't know what to do without all you big brave men telling me...."

Plus, bonus, all those extra mouths to feed the GMO food that Koch Brothers will produce. And all that sales tax to replace the Koch lovers income tax. Really a plan. That doctor's aren't trusted by the Koch GOP is a good thing. Yup. Means faster deaths among them.

blindrabbit 1 year, 8 months ago

Beg to differ with you, The Tea-bagging GOP does in fact love women, just not the kind you and I would care to associate with. The party has a collection of "highly intellectual' ??? dolts from it's "Binders of Women" program that the Party has embraced over the past few years. I submit the "prime" examples: Sharron Angle, Michelle Bachman, Marsha Blackburn, Jan Brewer, Lynn Jenkins, Sarah Palin and Christine O'Donnell. " God bless all, each and every one" C.Dickens

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

I should ask my physician friends if anyone has ever done a study on the effects of botox on fertility and/or brain cells. (There's a photo of Callista Gingrich burned into my brain that not even mind bleach and electroshock therapy will get rid of.) Then again, most of those women are past childbearing and couldn't give a flip for the women who aren't. Or else they're women like Karen Santorum; ok with having a "medically induced miscarriage" among themselves but by god that's a privilege reserved for them and their cohort and don't think those puny little masses should even THINK they are equal to their betters.

jjt 1 year, 8 months ago

So no one reading this thread has used an IUD, my point not well made perhaps, is that their legislation is in many ways unenforceable. The normal way that to deal with these points is to smile and ignore them as they get in the way. My next question is will the law mean no more over flights of Kansas by air lines. The GOP needs to think more about where it is going rather than how it feels on the way there.

Cait McKnelly 1 year, 8 months ago

I'm sure there are plenty of women that have or are using IUDs reading this thread. They just aren't willing to throw their lady parts out on the table for you to examine.
And no, I will NOT "smile and ignore them as they get in the way". This isn't a classroom of preschoolers, it's the state legislature and, at risk of a Godwin, "smiling and ignoring them" is the path to Nazism. They are bullies, plain and simple, and I WILL speak out against bullies.

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

Not as far-fetched as one might think. Anyone remember Vern Miller? Googled him and couldn't come up with verification, but I do remember a story that he boarded a commercial airliner and arrested people for drinking when they were flying over Kansas.

i_read_things 1 year, 8 months ago

On motion of Rep. Wilson to amend HB 2253, the motion did not prevail.

On roll call, the vote was: Yeas 31; Nays 90; Present but not voting: 0; Absent or not voting: 4. Yeas: Ballard, Bollier, Bridges, Burroughs, Carlin, Clayton, Davis, Dillmore, Finney, Frownfelter, Henderson, Hill, Houston, Kuether, Lane, Lusk, Menghini, Perry, Rooker, Ruiz, Sloan, Sloop, Tietze, Trimmer, Victors, Ward, Weigel, Whipple, Wilson, Winn, Wolfe Moore.

Nays: Alcala, Alford, Barker, Becker, Bideau, Boldra, Bradford, Bruchman, Brunk, Couture-Lovelady, Campbell, Carlson, Carpenter, Cassidy, Christmann, Claeys, Concannon, Corbet, Crum, DeGraaf, Dierks, Doll, Dove, Edmonds, Edwards, Esau, Ewy, Finch, Gandhi, Garber, Goico, Gonzalez, Grant, Grosserode, Hawkins, Hedke, Henry, Hermanson, Hibbard, Highland, Hildabrand, Hineman, Hoffman, Houser, Howell, Huebert, Hutton, Jennings, Johnson, Jones, Kahrs, Kelley, Kelly, Kinzer, Lunn, Macheers, Mast, McPherson, Meier, Meigs, Merrick, Montgomery, Moxley, O'Brien, Pauls, Peck, Petty, Phillips, Powell, Proehl, Read, Rhoades, Rothlisberg, Rubin, Ryckman Jr., Ryckman Sr., Schroeder, Schwab, Schwartz, Seiwert, Shultz, Siegfreid, Suellentrop, Sutton, Swanson, Thimesch, Todd, Vickrey, Waymaster, Weber.

Present but not voting: None.

Absent or not voting: Kleeb, Osterman, Peterson, Sawyer.

jayhawklawrence 1 year, 8 months ago

According to the FBI website, 84,767 forcible rapes were reported in 2010.

Most rapes are not reported. It is unknown how many cases of incest or child abuse result in pregnancies.

In Kansas you can be the victim of a rapist and then the victim of the government.

Who would you consider more evil?

The rapist who cannot control his urges or the politicians who exploit the victim?

UneasyRider 1 year, 8 months ago

This bill is just more proof of what GOP thinks of women. They should simply be kept pregnant, barefoot, in the kitchen and keep their mouths shut.

jayhawklawrence 1 year, 8 months ago

I am not sure how you fight against people like Rush Limbaugh, who spreads lies and disinformation across America every single day and is treated like a great American patriot.

He can call an innocent young woman a slut and get praised for it.

We are at a low point as a society when we honor these kind of people.

This is also the current state of our Kansas government. They will sacrifice anyone to score political points at the Koch mansion.

verity 1 year, 8 months ago

I think the extreme right wins in part because they scream louder and manipulate the lowest common denominator. Those who are more moderate in beliefs and the way they live are at a disadvantage because they try to persuade with reason rather than fear and phobia.

I believe we are battling sociopaths and if you have studied their personality make-up, you know they are really impossible to deal with in a healthy manner. Also, they are empowered by the current environment. When their behavior is condemned by society, they aren't so likely to be so open about it. However, they are still dangerous, they just go underground---remember the John Birch Society? We thought it had gone away, but it just raised it's ugly head under other names but the same people.

I'm not saying we should use their tactics, but we should never underestimate their power and influence. I never thought I would be fighting the women's rights battle again, but here we are. Apparently we will have to keep fighting forever and never become complacent.

i_read_things 1 year, 8 months ago

HB 2253, AN ACT concerning abortion; relating to the funding of abortion services; relating to prenatally and postnatally diagnosed conditions; relating to restrictions on late-term abortions; relating to the woman's-right-to-know act; amending K.S.A. 2012 Supp. 40-2246, 65-6701, 65-6703, 65-6709, 65-6710, 76-3308, 79-32,117, 79-32,138, 79-32,182b, 79-32,195, 79-32,261 and 79-3606 and repealing the existing sections, was considered on final action.

On roll call, the vote was: Yeas 92; Nays 31; Present but not voting: 0; Absent or not voting: 2.

Yeas: Alcala, Alford, Barker, Becker, Bideau, Boldra, Bradford, Bruchman, Brunk, Couture-Lovelady, Campbell, Carlson, Carpenter, Cassidy, Christmann, Claeys, Concannon, Corbet, Crum, DeGraaf, Dierks, Doll, Dove, Edmonds, Edwards, Esau, Ewy, Finch, Gandhi, Garber, Goico, Gonzalez, Grant, Grosserode, Hawkins, Hedke, Henry, Hermanson, Hibbard, Highland, Hildabrand, Hineman, Hoffman, Houser, Howell, Huebert, Hutton, Jennings, Johnson, Jones, Kahrs, Kelley, Kelly, Kinzer, Kleeb, Lunn, Macheers, Mast, McPherson, Meier, Meigs, Merrick, Montgomery, Moxley, O'Brien, Pauls, Peck, Peterson, Petty, Phillips, Powell, Proehl, Read, Rhoades, Rothlisberg, Rubin, Ryckman Jr., Ryckman Sr., Schroeder, Schwab, Schwartz, Seiwert, Shultz, Siegfreid, Suellentrop, Sutton, Swanson, Thimesch, Todd, Vickrey, Waymaster, Weber.

Nays: Ballard, Bollier, Bridges, Burroughs, Carlin, Clayton, Davis, Dillmore, Finney, Frownfelter, Henderson, Hill, Houston, Kuether, Lane, Lusk, Menghini, Perry, Rooker, Ruiz, Sloan, Sloop, Tietze, Trimmer, Victors, Ward, Weigel, Whipple, Wilson, Winn, Wolfe Moore.

Present but not voting: None.

Absent or not voting: Osterman, Sawyer.

The bill passed, as amended.

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