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Overland Park man arrested in shooting incident near KU campus

Two students transported to LMH; third nicked by a bullet

Lawrence police officers gather evidence outside The Hawk, a popular student bar located near the KU campus, after three people were shot, injuring two.

Lawrence police officers gather evidence outside The Hawk, a popular student bar located near the KU campus, after three people were shot, injuring two.

March 26, 2009, 2:06 a.m. Updated March 26, 2009, 8:30 p.m.

Security camera captures Thursday morning shooting

A security camera captured a triple-shooting early Thursday morning just east of the Kansas University campus. Enlarge video

A 22-year-old Overland Park man was arrested in connection with a triple shooting just before 2 a.m. Thursday near the Kansas University campus, Lawrence police said.

Joseph Abdullah Muhammad was charged with three counts of aggravated battery and will make his first appearance in court today, Douglas County District Attorney Charles Branson said.

Two college students were shot and another was grazed by a bullet while standing near 14th and Ohio streets.

Surveillance video shows a dark-colored passenger vehicle paused at the intersection, where the suspect leaned out of the passenger window and fired multiple shots at a group of people standing near the intersection, police said. Lawrence Police Sgt. Susan Hadl said the shooter used a handgun to fire at the crowd.

A 22-year-old KU student and a 21-year-old University of Chicago student, who was visiting Lawrence, each received two gunshot wounds and were transported to Lawrence Memorial Hospital, police said.

The KU student was shot in the right shin and left forearm, and the Chicago student was shot in the left ankle and right calf, Lawrence Police Sgt. Bill Cory said.

A hospital spokesman said both men were treated and released.

A 19-year-old KU student’s shoulder was grazed by a bullet in the incident, Cory said. He was not transported to the hospital.

Police are working to determine whether the shooting was random or if the victims were the intended targets, Cory said.

“It’s an unfortunate incident,” Cory said. “These things have happened in the past in Lawrence; they do happen. … You just need to be aware.”

Jim Carr, a KU senior, said he was doing homework at his house in the 400 block of West 14th Street, about 100 feet from where the shooting happened.

“I heard two gunshots, then a bunch more,” he said. “Maybe eight, but I don’t know. Maybe five.”

Just two minutes later, he said he heard “sirens, lots of sirens.”

Jorge Pizarro, a Lawrence resident, said he was a mere 75 feet away with friends at a nearby bar. He said he heard at least three shots, which he described as sounding like firecrackers or a BB gun.

“It didn’t sound like gunshots at all,” he said. “We didn’t think it was anything serious at first. Then we come out to find this.”

Marlesa Roney, KU’s vice provost for student success, issued a statement Thursday morning saying the university community was alarmed by a shooting so close to campus and several KU scholarship halls, but relieved there were no serious injuries.

“Although Lawrence is overall a safe environment, this incident reminds us of the need to always be aware of our surroundings and take precautions when necessary,” she said. “We also expect anyone with information to cooperate fully with police.”

The driver of the car hasn’t been located, Cory said.

Hadl urged anybody with information to contact Lawrence police at 785-830-7430 or Douglas County dispatchers at 785-832-7509. Callers who wish to remain anonymous are asked to call Crime Stoppers, 785-843-TIPS.

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Comments

Danimal 6 years, 1 month ago

People are getting shot at The Hawk now? What is this town coming to? I hope everyone is going to be okay.

peach_plum_pear 6 years, 1 month ago

I woke up to the gunshots, scary. I hope everyone makes it out okay! I know the student ghetto isn't exactly chill, but shootings? What can we do to keep this from happening again?

Bill Walberg 6 years, 1 month ago

I live at corner of 14th and Kentucky. I left the wheel 10 min before this happened. Got into bed to watch family guy. Then heard a car screech by....four shots and then 20 min later police sirens. Walked up there...the guys were shot at the corner at the hawk. I can't believe it happened a block away. They need to cancel dollar night...seen too many fights over there on Wednesdays. I'm shell shocked but not surprised that this would happen.

soldier1 6 years, 1 month ago

Oh come on, Lawrence now? One of the reasons why I like Lawrence so much is the low rates of violent crime. I really hope this isnt going to become a trend.

KacieFaye 6 years, 1 month ago

My prayers go out to the victims and families involved. I can't believe Lawrence just had a 'drive-by.' As society morphs into something new each year, I can't help but wonder why humans are becoming more and more animalistic with each passing year. I wonder if this was an effect of $1 drink night at The Hawk.

Let's keep Lawrence safe. I pray they catch this violent criminal.

igby 6 years, 1 month ago

Young people of this generation are very disrespectful and mouthy beyond belief. It doesn't shock me one bit when things like this happen. Liquor is not always the root of the problem it just brings out the underlying persons true self.

When these smart-a$$ kids mouth off the the wrong person things like this happen.

Remember that your in the real world and not in high school anymore.

I cannot believe how parents have raised such a crop of vile and un-socialized bunch of college kids as we have today on campus. There the most immature bunch of losers I've seen in 20 years around campus. May be the class of 1989, came somewhat close but they were not as vile and vulgar in their every day talk as these kids are.

BigPrune 6 years, 1 month ago

If the shooter is from Topuka....I wonder if the City Commission will write a letter of apology to the citizens of Topeka? It would be the codependent thing to do.

Kookamooka 6 years, 1 month ago

That has gang initiation written all over it. Random shootings into large crowds. Watch out LPD! That needs to be nipped immediately.

compmd 6 years, 1 month ago

This is insane.

I am declaring next week "return fire" week. I wish that just once, if this is going to happen, an armed citizen is nearby to return fire.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 1 month ago

Wow- Lawrence is getting dangerous. Bet the person that was "grazed " by the shot, has a whole new outlook on life.

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

Probably unrelated, but yesterday evening a black car, Missouri tags, with 4 young men were slowly cruising the rural area where I live. I looked up "Pontiac G6", the body style was very similar to the cruisers. Couldn't see the driver or driver side rear passenger from where I was watching, but the 2 other passengers were white, unshaven, looked like they slept in the car. Just looked totally out of their element.

Probably nothing......

geekin_topekan 6 years, 1 month ago

This turned out in the best way that it possibly could have. Noone got seriously injured,the perps acknowledged their cowardice by running off and noone played Rambo and got themself or bystanders killed.

I think we need compnd^ to stand by and protect us all.Just the thought makes me feel all fuzzy and safe...moron.

Until gun laws are tightened and gun owners are held responsible for their weapons,this will happen more and more often.This once-legal weapon fell into the hands of the shooter because of lax gun laws. I believe in the fact that every American has the unalienable right to own a gun,don't get me wrong,but the anacharistic nature of gun laws and rights activists promote this sort of thing.Live in denial all you want;this was once a legal gun and that is truth,undeniable,

Adrienne Sanders 6 years, 1 month ago

Good lord. This is a block and a half from where I live and I slept right through everything.

I wonder if they were shooting at someone in particular or just decided to shoot into a crowd for the heck of it.

fatheadff 6 years, 1 month ago

Geekin i agree with you that it was once a legal gun. But lax gun laws did not make the weapon fall into the hands of the shooter. Did you ever think it may have been stolen from someone by the shooter or he may have bought it from someone who stole it. Maybe the shooter has never been in trouble before in his life he went out and legally purchased the gun then decided to do something really stupid. How can you tighten gun laws if they have a clean background or if the weapon was stolen from a honest person. It dont matter what gun laws you want to impose on us it wont stop someone like that idiot from getting his hands on a gun if he wants one.

tutulee 6 years, 1 month ago

This is very sad and I hope the victims will make a full recovery.

Brandon Mailand 6 years, 1 month ago

Sounds like the Granada shooting from a couple years back... Is this another thug from Top City wreaking havoc in L-Town?

geekin_topekan 6 years, 1 month ago

Did you ever think it may have been stolen from someone by the shooter or he may have bought it from someone who stole it. +++ Indeed I have and my ideas are only suggestive.I dont and never have claimed to have the answers. However,do you know where your gun is right now? Are you absolutely sure?Did you check? impose debilitating fines on irrisponsibility and deny re-arming until previous guns are accounted for.That places emphasis on the owners without denying their rights.

I have only been witness in one shooting in my lifetime and a retired disabled vet was killed with his own gun.His truck was plastered with stickers from the NRA and slogans that read,"The west wasnt won with a registered gun", and," When guns are outlawed,only outlaws will have guns".The irony floors me to this day. This proves one point.Having a gun does not make you right.Pulling a gun does not mean you will win.He pulled a weapon under the idea that he would prove his superiority and unarmed civlians would surrender.He was wrong.But that is an entrirely different discussion.I am sorry I got off thread. Carry on.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 6 years, 1 month ago

"One of the reasons why I like Lawrence so much is the low rates of violent crime."

This violence happened in Lawrence, but it came from somewhere else.

I bet they never catch these guys.

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

consumer1 , Holding the weapon correctly improves accuracy, the bullet will travel the same regardless of how the weapon is held. Gravity rules...... You would have a difficult time finding anyone more pro-second amendment than me. This situation is not where I would want to see a second gun being fired. Find cover, help others, keep track of details. You make a better witness than corpse

grammaddy 6 years, 1 month ago

drogo89-glad you brought that up. I hope security is tough at "The Game"'s concert at the Granada next week. All the thug wannabes will be there and we could see a repeat of the violence that happened a few years ago.

jonas_opines 6 years, 1 month ago

"Otherwise return fire weekend would be total fun."

There's something wrong with this thought.

jafs 6 years, 1 month ago

I read a while back that violent crime in Lawrence virtually doubled in 2007 or 2008.

Since I've lived in the area (10+ years), crime has increased noticeably and Lawrence has become a less pleasant place to live as a result.

BLaT 6 years, 1 month ago

being a CC'er also would have to agree this would be a no shoot type of situation. Rapid moving target, much more no clear target.

I venture a guess that most of the comments like "return fire weekend" come from people without permits.

Don't get me wrong idiots that do things like this deserve punishment or worse. Just remember it's all fun and games till you have really have to defend yourself from a threat. Then you are stuck with living with that fact. It's not a game and with any luck most of us will never have to find that out the hard way.

HermioneElliott 6 years, 1 month ago

The vast majority of students at KU are responsible decent people. They hold down jobs while they go to school. Perhaps ten percent of them go out and get mindlessly drunk and less than one percent are ever going to shot anyone. As far as being mouthy, they have the same right to speak their mind as anyone else. When something happened in North Lawrence, everyone over there became a pervert. Now everyone on campus is a gangsta. Don't get mad at a particular person and take it out on the rest of us.

davidmcg 6 years, 1 month ago

I agree, there is something wrong with the statement, “Otherwise return fire weekend would be total fun.”

Anyone with a CCW should know better than that. A CCW is a permit to carry, not a permit to fire. if put in a position of violence, even with a CCW, one of your actions must be to first retreat without the return of fire. Return of fire may only be used in very limited circumstances. Just because an idiot is firing into a crowd, does not open the door for any individual with a CCW to return fire. The return of fire can only be justified when it does not risk harming innocent people, only the aggressor. If that aggressor is fleeing or retreating, as a CCW holder you are not allowed to fire upon them. Once they break off the attack and attempt to leave the scene you are not allowed to fire upon them. Just like you are not allowed to fire at a vehicle.

Anyone who agrees with the person who made the statement about a fun return fire weekend should really rethink the guideline of their CCW. I believe we all have a right to keep and bear arms. But when uneducated and undisciplined people with firearms act irresponsibly, we all suffer the consequences.

Another thing, this was not necessarily a gang initiation. It could have been many things and not even necessarily connected to the bar or anything that happenned inside that bar. What lead to this shooting could have been far removed and involved almost anything. Almost all violent attacks are crimes committed between parties who know each other. Very few are random and very few are caused by one thing. Someone also said they thought Lawrence had a low rate of violent crime. Better wake up, the violent crime level in Lawrence per 1000 residents hasn't been low for years. It has been escalating steadily for years. LPD and DGSO are up to the task, but they can not be everywhere all the time.

MarchSadness 6 years, 1 month ago

"Witnesses described the shooter as a black man with tattoos on his arm."....is anybody really surprised by this?

jaywalker 6 years, 1 month ago

What in the H E double hockey sticks is goin' down in Larryville these days?

archercc 6 years, 1 month ago

This isnt a local. All of our violent crimes are by scum from Topeka or KC. The only reason this stuff is happening at the real college bars is because Lawrence has closed or harassed all of the "gangster" bars into submission.

Now they just need to start harassing these people directly. Want to act like a gangster? Get treated like one.

gogoplata 6 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Ian Brown 6 years, 1 month ago

"Meanwhile, Jorge Pizarro, a Lawrence resident, said he was a mere 75 feet away with friends at The Wheel, 507 W. 14th St. He said he heard at least three shots, which he described as sounding like firecrackers or a BB gun."

I'm sorry, but anyone who has ever fired a BB gun, or been around one that has been fired, knows that one makes virtually no sound at all. I can understand the shots sounding like firecrackers, but a BB gun? That is absurd. Jorge must watch too many movies and doesn't know what a real gun sounds like when fired (or didn't know, until early this morning).

Jim Williamson 6 years, 1 month ago

Typical Lawrence arrogance, assuming shooters were from Tapioca or KC. "Nothing bad ever happens here, all evil comes from somewhere else, all is well, all is well."

In Lawrence, there is no poverty, no mental illness, no gang problems, no violence, no crime. Repeat as needed.

I spent seven of the best years of my life in undergrad and grad school at KU back in the 80s. Now you couldn't pay me enough to live there because of this attitude that really seems to have taken root in the last 15 years or so.

Hoots 6 years, 1 month ago

It's going to be interesting to see what comes of this. Was it random? Were these people thrown out of the bar or not allowed in? This kind of activity around The Hawk seems pretty bizarre. I hope the LPD catches these thugs. Mutiple counts of attempted murder should put these people away for a good long time.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 1 month ago

Thursday morning, Marlesa Roney, KU's vice provost for student success, issued a statement saying the university community was alarmed by a shooting so close to campus and several KU scholarship halls, but relieved there were no injuries.

Typical response from KU... (Paraphrased), "We share your concern, but it's not our problem"

By the way... wonder how the people that got shot, feel about the "no injuries" statement by the vice provost for student success.

Hawk6643 6 years, 1 month ago

Igby and Original_Me, please don't group all of us college kids into the same group. Most of us are respectable members of society. I'm not saying all of us are perfect (esp. the incoming freshman as of late), but you shouldn't sterotype us all into the same group when clearly not all of us act this way.

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

ARCHERCC: This isnt a local. All of our violent crimes are by scum from Topeka or KC. The only reason this stuff is happening at the real college bars is because Lawrence has closed or harassed all of the “gangster” bars into submission.

Now they just need to start harassing these people directly.


Well said, mate.

BigAl 6 years, 1 month ago

Phogfan86... Sounds good to me. I doubt if anyone misses you.

Jaylee 6 years, 1 month ago

MarchSadness (Anonymous) says…

"“Witnesses described the shooter as a black man with tattoos on his arm.”….is anybody really surprised by this?"

uhhhh? maybe i am giving you too much slack but that is super borderline to me.

there was just a shooting a couple blocks away from there last week as well!! over at 14th and new jersey or something. people are really removed from reality and obviously have not been happy in a long time if they are desperate enough to fire a gun like these recent occurrences.

Brandon Mailand 6 years, 1 month ago

Phogfan86 "Typical Lawrence arrogance, assuming shooters were from Tapioca or KC. “Nothing bad ever happens here, all evil comes from somewhere else, all is well, all is well.”"

Lawrence does have bad things that happen, but let's look at the past few incidents. Kid gets shot over drugs, shooter from McClouth. Stabbing downtown, criminal from Topeka. Shooting at the Granada, shooter from Topeka. The only major incident I can recall within the past five years or so that involves a local person, is the student murdered off Michigan street, which was a crazy mixed up drama affair type situation, NOT a senseless or "heat of the moment" crime as those a fore mentioned.

So, yes crime does happen in Lawrence, drugs, drunks, robberies, vandalism, etc. But typically speaking, in those violent to the point of severe injury death, the perpetrator is not local.

Jack Martin 6 years, 1 month ago

xbusguy selectively edited the KU statement to make it appear that it said "no injuries." That is absolutely not true. The statement said we were "relieved there were no serious injuries."

http://www.news.ku.edu/2009/march/26/statement.shtml

Jaylee 6 years, 1 month ago

Hoots (Anonymous) says…

"Mutiple counts of attempted murder should put these people away for a good long time."

doubt it. you only get like 2 years around here for manslaughter, MAX!!! the larger, blunter you can make your weapon, the lesser the sentence. cars work best!


Original_Me (Anonymous) says…

"Those crime guys still at the hotel? New project, fresh outa the oven."

haha good call!!!

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

Instead of DUI checkpoints, how about illegal weapon and drug checkpoints on inbound K-10, inbound 59, inbound Highway 40, Lecompton and West Lawrence exits, and by the Outlet mall so you get I-70 and 24. That would make for a safe Saturday night in Lawrence, not to mention the criminal fines that would result and the probation and parole violators that would be caught.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 1 month ago

jackmartin- sorry about that. It wasn't on purpose. Thanks for the correction.

chihuahua2 6 years, 1 month ago

I agree with sippenwhiskey04. They need more searches for weapons. I hope everyone that was injured is doing fine. I hope Lawrence doesn't turn out like Topeka and KC. I used to feel safe to take a walk at night in Lawrence but not any more. You don't know when and where you could get hurt. Hopefully lawrence can change!!!

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

Thankyou chihuahua2, however, don't let one incident of senseless random violence scare you into staying inside. We have a beautiful town that should be enjoyed by it's residents. Take a walk whenever you feel like it. I just wouldn't do it at 2:00 in the morning.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

davidmcg (Anonymous) says… "I agree, there is something wrong with the statement, “Otherwise return fire weekend would be total fun.”

The only thing wrong with this statement is that everyday should be return fire day. There is always at least one moron in the group who blames the gun and not the person and who appears to believe that simply lining up unarmed people as a shooting gallery to be slaughtered is "civilized."

geekin_topekan (Anonymous) says… "Until gun laws are tightened and gun owners are held responsible for their weapons, this will happen more and more often.This once-legal weapon fell into the hands of the shooter because of lax gun laws."

What makes you think the gun owner and the shooter are different people? What makes you think if he is caught he won't be prosecuted? What makes you think the gun is illegal. If the gun was "once legal" my guess is it is "still legal".

Brent Fry 6 years, 1 month ago

Dan's on the loose in Larryville...no shock there

kmat 6 years, 1 month ago

sippinwhiskey - there's something called the 4th ammendment. Need a good reason to search my car. I'm a commuter. So I should have to go through that all the time. DUI is one thing because you are illegally operating the vehicle and you can usually smell alcohol and that is reason to search. So you think every person coming into Lawrence should have no rights, huh?

maxcrabb 6 years, 1 month ago

See, this never would have happened during prohibition....

oh, wait.

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

KMAT, did the 4th ammendment get violated a couple years ago at Wakarusa when the KHP, LKPD, and DCSO searched all the vehicles and confiscated all drugs and "tobacco smoking accessories?" Drivers Licence check points are legal, if nothing else pick up the bangers on active warrants.

Deja Coffin 6 years, 1 month ago

It was probably a bunch of Missouri fans.....I hate Mizzou!!

But seriously I hope everyone is alright and I am glad it's not as bad as it could have been.

Chihuahua2 just remember if you stay inside the thugs win!

gogoplata 6 years, 1 month ago

Wow. I think that was the first time I've had a comment deleted.

Will I get deleted for pussy cat, maybe pussy willow.

Let me try again.

Wussies. These gangbanger types are wussies. Just like terrorists they prey on the defenseless.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

JackMartin_KUCommunications (Jack Martin) says… "xbusguy selectively edited the KU statement to make it appear that it said “no injuries.” That is absolutely not true. The statement said we were “relieved there were no serious injuries.”

So being shot is not a serious injury? Well that IS a relief! I guess that makes the Obama Administration's "War on Terror" downgrade to "Overseas Contingency Operation" sound reasonable. I hope the protesters at 9th and Mass are informed, there is no more war to protest and the next couple of students shot in the arm or the leg don't even bother with the hospital and head to the Student Health Clinic for a couple of aspirin. After all it is not like they died from alcohol poisoning while under aged binge drinking.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 1 month ago

"Furthermore, I'm not really sure why it matters whether the perpetrators of this “gang” culture are from Lawrence or not,.."


Right on Logic. If it happens in our town, then it's our problem. We (Lawrence and KU) need to get a handle on this drive by shooting crap. We can blame others for the "gangbangers", but it certainly happened in Lawrence. It is time for Lawrence to deal with it.

ModSquadGal 6 years, 1 month ago

Well, since they shut down the Last Call, the bangers had to have SOMEPLACE to go do their drive-by's... it's already happened at 23rd St. Brewery as well. What's next? Applebee's? Chili's? Seriously people (the shooters), get a life. It's ridiculous.

mom_of_three 6 years, 1 month ago

igby - generalizations about what YOU think are not going to help. I am sure old fogies have been saying that about college students for years, and I don't see anything different about this group than the ones previous.
One random drive by does not make Lawrence a bad place, but does require everyone to be more cautious about their surroundings.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says… "Man, it's a good thing the city closed down Last Call and got rid of this type of violence for once and all. The idea that closing down certain bars is a solution for violent crime is absurd. They were coming to Lawrence, not because they just love Last Call, but because they would rather deal with Lawrence police than KC or Topeka police. You can't possibly believe that there aren't bars like Last Call in KC or Topeka."

As you are well aware the closing "The Last Call" was not about making Lawrence safe for rich white college kids, it was a personal vendetta against the owner by several members of the Current City Commission and other City of Lawrence officials. They just dressed it up in baggy pants, gold jewelry, painted the face black, blared hip hop music and then sent out the lynch mob led by Richard Heckler and the Looney Liberal Lawrence Sheeple bought it hook line and sinker and did their dirty work for them.

d_prowess 6 years, 1 month ago

I especially enjoyed the comment from the person that specifically named the class of 1989 as being especially bad!
Really? So you know that, as a group, that year of students (and only students from that year) were particularly vulgar and got better once those exact students left? Obviously something left quite an impression on you!

Janet Lowther 6 years, 1 month ago

Shooting back at a moving car is not a very good idea.

Even cops who shoot 98%+ on their qualifications have trouble with fast moving targets.

Yes, bullets must come down somewhere, but they don't come down with as much energy as they went up with. Bullets are propelled from a gun barrel far above their terminal velocity, the maximum speed the resistance of the air will allow them to fall. Indeed, if you fired a gun straight DOWN from the altitude of a mile or so (say from a balloon), the bullet would arrive at the ground with far less energy than it left the gun with, gravity not providing enough acceleration to overcome losses due to atmospheric drag. Of course I'd still rather not be where it came down, 'cause it would hurt, and if it hit just so, it could still manage to kill you.

Remember the classic, simplified physics calculations of trajectories neglect the influence of the air. In a vacuum a feather falls at the same speed as a rock, but as we all know, the terminal velocity of a feather is far less than that of a rock.

This is why cops got away with firing "warning shots" into the air for about a hundred years. . .

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

jrlii, did you learn that from Charlie Epps on Numb3rs?

alove27 6 years, 1 month ago

What is wrong with people? Why do people really feel the need to do crap like this, so stupid. I hope they catch whoever did this and hit em up with attempted murder.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

sippinwhiskey04 (Anonymous) says… "jrlii, did you learn that from Charlie Epps on Numb3rs?"

No s/he watched a very special edition of Mythbusters. Next they will tell you that you can save water if you drink your own piss after having watched Man vs. Wild.

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

consumer1 (Anonymous) says… "One more thing. While it is trending among “gangstas” to hold the weapon sideways, so as to reduce the upward momentum of the recoil, that also means a missed target will leave a bullet travelling at human level for quite some distance."

HermioneElliott (Anonymous) says… "Now everyone on campus is a gangsta. Don't get mad at a particular person and take it out on the rest of us."

Hermi/Cleo, as you can easily see, consumer1 did not refer to anyone on campus as gangsta. Why do you always want to twist things around to fit what you want to "think" people are saying? You pulled this as Cleopatra, now you do it as HermioneElliott. I have researched Hermione Elliott. You are no Hermione Elliott.

Hoots 6 years, 1 month ago

People want to talk about making gun laws more strict. I'll bet that the gun used in this 1) was stolen or is illegal. 2) the perp was a convicted felon. Even in societies with very tight restrictions on guns the criminals still get guns. When are people going to realize that criminals don't give a crap about the law...they are after all criminals. I'm never going to worry about the guy down the street who purchased his gun legally and went through the proper checks to own it. Look at Mexico. I could be arrested there for simply having a bullet on my person let alone a gun but it seems they have a huge problem. A lot of good its done them to keep weapons out of the hands of honest citizens.

1029 6 years, 1 month ago

So I assume the victims were standing across the street from the Wheel if the shooter leaned out the passenger window and the car then traveled up 14th?

Maybe it was a gang initiation and random shooting, but I wouldn't be suprised if someone let their mouth run off at the wrong person. Several years back I went to the Hawk (only once) and was shocked at the racist remarks written on the bathroom walls. On a few occasions over the years I've overheard groups of frat-looking kids walking down the sidewalk make some shockingly candid racist remarks/jokes among themselves. It's as if these some of these kids are fearless to say whatever they want because they are part of such a heavy racial majority and so they just assume this majority will agree with them--like there is some sort of common bond among white people where they should all find their racist "jokes" funny.

alove27 6 years, 1 month ago

Why do people have to bring up Last Call? That bar was ghetto and brought in all sorts of ignorance. Hey Logicsound04 do you think Lawrence cops are better than KC cops? That is funny, obviously you are not from KC because you can get away with a lot more there than you can here in Lawrence. Do you know the cop to person ratio in Lawrence? This kind of stupidness happens all the time in KC. Come on, don't talk like you know something and then just sound like a fool. THANKS!

PS. There is a lot of drugged up idiots that live in Lawrence too.

alm77 6 years, 1 month ago

igby, original and lawrenceguy, I cannot believe you guys just implied that mouthy students deserve to be SHOT. An argument is one thing, even a good old fashioned fist fight is generally understood (and rarely involves innocent bystanders) but shooting someone for being loud and obnoxious is not "teaching them a lesson" or making them "respect" anything.

Although I have my doubts that this was provoked in anyway. But, whatever. It'll all come out. It always does.

msmacgregor 6 years, 1 month ago

Lawrence has a history of violence. Remember Quantrill's Raid or the anti-war and civil rights shootings and bombings of the sixties?

alove27 6 years, 1 month ago

Agreed with you alm77, totally a stupid comment to make. Shooting at a group of people is not the right way to go about teaching someone a lesson. I honestly don't like to think of my daughter or son walking down a road and being shot because of what some other fool may have said.

FMT6488 6 years, 1 month ago

75x55 (Anonymous) says…

Profiling is wrong and racist………


Profiling a KNOWN group of individuals (say young males driving customized cars - 18" rims w/spinners & 16"+wide tires, loud speakers,etc.) just sounds like common sense to me.

As would a federal officer doing a background check on someone of obvious middle eastern heritage, smelling like they haven't taken a bath in the last 2 days, carrying a backpack/ bag that is obviously holding something very heavy, acting very nervous, and constantly checking his watch.

Now that you've read the second example/ subject of profiling, note ONE thing many would have missed from the first one - I NEVER stated the persons' race.....

And consider this other fact - the first example may not be considered profiling in some states, while the second one WOULD be considered so in nearly ALL states.

Now, how do you feel about profiling?

Raider 6 years, 1 month ago

I remember the discussion boards back when Last Call was going through all of its bull&*%. Someone on here said that closing the place wouldn't solve the problem, but would just move it to other areas of the city. Looks like they were correct.

I'd be willing to bet one month's salary that this car had either MO, WY or SN tags on it. Thugs coming into Lawrence to "get their drank on" with the little "KU honies". At least at Last Call they were isolated into one place. Now it seems like they're spreading into other parts of town. Shootings have increased at Crosstown Tavern, and now there's one at the Hawk. Violent crime is up in this city almost two-fold. On Friday and Saturday nights parts of town look like what you'd see in a movie about South Central.

If the LPD doesn't get a handle on this, there will be all out gang warfare in the streets. These people don't care about anything but their "herb" and "getting their drank on with the honies" and since they've been run out of their own cities, they come here and terrorize ours. This trash has figured out that coming to a smaller town, they can get away with this "gangsta" bull(*$&.

In the meantime LPD does nothing to run this trash out. It's a playground for these types of people.

SpeedRacer 6 years, 1 month ago

The suspect vehicle traveled up 14th street toward campus yet no KU police nor LPD were able to locate a moving vehicle or suspiciously stopped vehicle on Jayhawk Blvd at 2:00 in the morning?

Bob031800 6 years, 1 month ago

Here is some interesting statistics on rising crime downtown...

Danth Inc. released in March 2008 that since 2001 violent crime had risen in downtown Lawrence. In 2001 only 45 assaults were reported in downtown Lawrence, by 2006 that number had grown to 245, which in itself was an increase of 100 from the year before. N. David Milder writes in this report that "Except for Lawrence, KS, a medium sized college town in the heart of the midwest, all other downtowns report declining crime rates."

shoffner 6 years, 1 month ago

what's up with everyone acting like there's never been a shooting in lawrence before?

storm 6 years, 1 month ago

So that gang initiation to shoot three people which was soposed to happen last week actually happened this week.

ModSquadGal 6 years, 1 month ago

Sigmund: Really? Shutting down Last Call was a personal vendetta against the owner? Maybe it was an attempt to clean up the trash in this town that would allow such a place with such a "rep" and such a record of violence to exist. Ya think?

archercc 6 years, 1 month ago

Phogfan86 “Typical Lawrence arrogance, assuming shooters were from Tapioca or KC. “Nothing bad ever happens here, all evil comes from somewhere else, all is well, all is well.””

Wanna put money on it? Seriously?

The stabbing, Topekan. The shooting at Last Call too. The shooting at Einstein brothers involved both KCMO kids and Topekans. The ONLY high profile violent crime that involved a KU student was at Moon Bar and that was Giddens, all the rest were from KC.

Sure crime happens here and its caused by students/locals. But its not like this. Its a fistfight, which ends with no real injuries or charges. Students at KU arent doing drive-bys.

And yes, there was a murder with some wierd love triangle thing but that can hardly reflect a community, especially when its the only one in a decade.

geekin_topekan 6 years, 1 month ago

Just watched the video. Is that kid in the white t-shirt the one who got grazed?Yikes. If he had been standing six inches to his right...

This would have been a whole different story.

Or,he coulda pulled out his CC and saved everybody like a real man. CCrs are such posers.

jfkjr84 6 years, 1 month ago

How can no one know what kind of car it was? Please someone tell us what type of car they were driving. This would be a huge piece of information for the public to have.

archercc 6 years, 1 month ago

logicsound04 "This article (and other, similar articles) are proof positive that the whole Last Call fiasco was just that, a fiasco. The idea that shutting a business down because of their patrons—no matter how big an a-hole the owner is—is wrong."

The key is to make Lawrencee a hostile environment for their clientel so they will ruin their own communities instead. That is why we need to start harassing these people directly.

And Last Call was a haven/draw for these people (as was moon bar). Instead of addressing the issue they just put in metal detectors so the violence would stay outside. This was a drive by after the bar closing, I doubt this bar had a history of supporting this "culture."

You dont have this kind of stuff at the Wheel or Freestate because they dont cater to this crowd.

BeeBee3 6 years, 1 month ago

That is NOT the number to Lawrence Police...

jayhawk10 6 years, 1 month ago

"Instead of DUI checkpoints, how about illegal weapon and drug checkpoints on inbound K-10, inbound 59, inbound Highway 40, Lecompton and West Lawrence exits, and by the Outlet mall so you get I-70 and 24. That would make for a safe Saturday night in Lawrence, not to mention the criminal fines that would result and the probation and parole violators that would be caught."

So now we can't travel freely about our country... Welcome to Nazi Germany.

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

jfkjr84, earlier today the car was identified as "black, possibly a Pontiac G6". That has since been removed

Hoots 6 years, 1 month ago

How can anyone here stand up for Last Call? Did they forget all the violations that place had. The last one invloved a 15 year old kid getting shot. What was a 15 year old doing at that place anyway? Do you forget about the two rolling gun battles that happened on the way back to KC that started at Last Call? Did you forget about all the drugs and guns that were found on patrons and in clear sight in patrons cars? Did you forget about the times Last Call thugs ran into Stop n' Shops and stole the places blind on the way out of town? Did you forget about all the fights and the discharging of firearms in the bar? Oh, yeah...the city had it out for the Jackball that owned it. You have got to be kidding. If you watch the KC news they shut places down all the time there that have had a much cleaner record than Last Call. If anything Lawrence showed this place WAY too much understanding.

sarahsmilehawk 6 years, 1 month ago

I predict that we'll soon find out that the shooters were KU students. I doubt they were even Hawk patrons. I could certainly be wrong, but it would be a surprise.

HermioneElliott 6 years, 1 month ago

navajojoe, you are absolutely right, but don't count on it happening any time soon. I think it is shameful what happened to the natives in this country. I have witnessed open hostility to natives downtown. I have heard bus drivers being rude to them. Yet you never hear about that do you? I give you high praise and joy for being who you are. I am trying to think like you, but it is hard with so many around that think it is fun to provoke others. Thank you for your posting. Don't stop.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

ModSquadGal (Anonymous) says… "Sigmund: Really? Shutting down Last Call was a personal vendetta against the owner? Maybe it was an attempt to clean up the trash in this town that would allow such a place with such a “rep” and such a record of violence to exist. Ya think?"

More people have been shot, killed and injured at Henry T's, The Granada, Brothers, Club Axis, and now The Hawk than at The Last Call. Yet only The Last Call gets shut down.

Wadya thank?

Adrienne Sanders 6 years, 1 month ago

When Last Call was around there were articles about guns found in vehicles every single week, just about. There have been violent events at other clubs, but they've been sporadic, not constant.

Also... with all those people standing around, none of them looked at the license plate?

Tony Kisner 6 years, 1 month ago

I fear this will trigger a retaliation response from the Stafford Drive Popped-Collar disciples.

sarahsmilehawk 6 years, 1 month ago

"On a few occasions over the years I've overheard groups of frat-looking kids walking down the sidewalk make some shockingly candid racist remarks/jokes among themselves."

I've NEVER heard this. Even so, there's a big difference between white kids making racist comments among themselves and white kids making racist comments to black people, as you imply. A closet racist knows better, and I haven't met any openly racist people at KU.

I doubt this shooting had anything to do with race.

Shane Garrett 6 years, 1 month ago

The Associated Press
COTTONWOOD, Ariz. — A bobcat has attacked three people in the central Arizona community of Cottonwood, including two men who were bitten by the animal after it wandered inside a bar.

We should take preventative measures, now!

Religion_LOL 6 years, 1 month ago

This is clearly a hate crime and should be prosecuted as such. Discharging a handgun into a random crowd shows the true level of hatred for those on the receiving end. Having been to the hawk I would guess that the vast majority of potential targets were white. I will give credit the the LJworld for providing the suspects race and a brief description, many publications wouldn't have included those details.

Tony Kisner 6 years, 1 month ago

Logic - "First of all, I don't think anyone is “defending” Last Call.

Second, the only things you included in your laundry list of violations for which Last Call is responsible is the 15-year-old kid being at a nightclub and the instance where a firearm was discharged inside the club."

  • So much for your first point on defending the last call....

nobody1793 6 years, 1 month ago

"cottonwood, Ariz. — A bobcat has attacked three people in the central Arizona community of Cottonwood, including two men who were bitten by the animal after it wandered inside a bar. We should take preventative measures, now!"

Ten bucks says that bobcat wasn't 21 years old. Enforce the laws on the books!

louder1 6 years, 1 month ago

Well said ARumer. Thug life must suck.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says… "the only things you included in your laundry list of violations for which Last Call is responsible is the 15-year-old kid being at a nightclub and the instance where a firearm was discharged inside the club."

If I remember correctly the 15 year old was not in the club at all but on the sidewalk outside. Still a lynch mob and its righteous indignation and selective memories are hard to seperate. As you are well aware the closing “The Last Call” was not about making Lawrence safe for rich white college girls, it was a personal vendetta against the owner by several members of the current City Commission and other City of Lawrence officials. They just dressed it up in baggy pants, gold jewelry, painted the face black, blared hip hop music and then sent out the lynch mob led by Richard Heckler and the Looney Liberal Lawrence Sheeple bought it hook line and sinker and did their dirty work for them.

So send the cops to Club Axis or the Riverfront Plaza parking and have them look in the parked cars and you will begin to find drugs and guns there as well. Of course if you don't look you will never find.

Oh and I am defending The Last Call because someone has to stand up to the lynch mobs.

Jaminrawk 6 years, 1 month ago

"RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says…

Nothing good happens after midnight."

I can think of at least one "thing" that happens after midnight that is pretty awesome ...

maxcrabb 6 years, 1 month ago

"I can think of at least one “thing” that happens after midnight that is pretty awesome …"

Just one?

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

(From another article) navajojoe (Anonymous) says…

I believe that all pit bulls and pit bull owners should be killed. Pit Bulls are vicious and murderers, the owners are all drug dealers, gang bangers, or both

(From this article) HermioneElliott (Anonymous) says… navajojoe, you are absolutely right, but don't count on it happening any time soon. I think it is shameful what happened to the natives in this country. I have witnessed open hostility to natives downtown. I have heard bus drivers being rude to them. Yet you never hear about that do you? I give you high praise and joy for being who you are. I am trying to think like you, but it is hard with so many around that think it is fun to provoke others. Thank you for your posting. Don't stop.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

ArumerZwarteHoop (Anonymous) says… "This shooter needs to be lynched."

No we punish bar owners in this town, not shooters!

Besides one guy gets shot outside of The Last Call with a black customers playing hip hop and it is justification to close the place and lynch the owner, but two people get shot outside of The Hawk and KU JackMartin_KUCommunications (Jack Martin) says… "there were no serious injuries.” http://www.news.ku.edu/2009/march/26/statement.shtml

The ability for self deception of the Looney Left in Lawrence knows no boundaries.

alove27 6 years, 1 month ago

Instead of all your scenarios on what happened, can't we all just agree that the people who did this were sick individuals that shouldn't be walking our streets or anyones?

So who thinks it was college kids? Why would a college kid, who is in school and has everything going for them want to shoot other college kids and risk losing everything? Makes no sense, whoever did this is a scumbag and could've killed someone's son or daughter. I just pray they get caught to get what they deserve, prison.

People realize these kids that got injured and sent home could have easily been hit somewhere else on their body and been killed. That's scary and all the arguing on here is ridiculas because can anyone really say they don't agree this was something terrible to happen to OUR KU students in Lawrence?

hawklet21 6 years, 1 month ago

alove, most of the Hawk patrons are scumbags too.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

hawklet21 (Anonymous) says… "alove, most of the Hawk patrons are scumbags too."

Absolutely correct. However, the only kids alove cares about in Lawrence go to KU. If they are from KC or Topeka or even Lawrence they are risk taking losers with nothing to lose and no future anyway.

Tony Kisner 6 years, 1 month ago

Nobody - very funny. I would guess the Bobcat was also drinking before it ever entered the bar, probably Natty Light.

MsJayhawker 6 years, 1 month ago

I am amazed at some of these posts. It saddens me to think that people are so closed minded to think that nothing bad comes from Lawrence. I've lived in Lawrence and love the town, but working in a bank there, I've seen many bad things happen that came from locals. However, the reporting doesn't happen like it does when it's from people outside the city. The bank I worked at got robbed by a man that lived in Lawrence his entire life...but it was not published. Many banks actually were violently robbed (federal crime), but the media does not want to cover everything. Yes, there has been crimes committed by people from KC and Topeka, but you can't leave out Lawrence. Just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Also, I must mention that to judge the shooter based on other bar incidents or gangs is absurd. No one but the shooter knows why he did what he did and to assume things does nothing. Violent people have their reasons, from bad days, someone made them mad, or yes, even gang violence. However, to make it an issue of race is just plain ignorance.

I hope the victims recover quickly and the shooter is caught. My prayers go out to the victims and am so thankful that they will be okay.

hawklet21 6 years, 1 month ago

Sigmund - That's pretty much what I got out of it.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 1 month ago

Caught the idiot, and from Johnson County, no less.. Good job LPD.....

Jaylee 6 years, 1 month ago

sippinwhiskey04 (Anonymous) says…

"KMAT, did the 4th ammendment get violated a couple years ago at Wakarusa when the khp, lkpd, and DCSO searched all the vehicles and confiscated all drugs and “tobacco smoking accessories?”"

to answer the question for kmat, yes.

newsreader 6 years, 1 month ago

Shooter is from OP?! Who would have guessed....

Drew_Carey 6 years, 1 month ago

1000 pts to the poster who said, 22 yr old with that kind of name from the OP that they will catch before 3 pm the next day.

Oh, nobody.

sinverguenza 6 years, 1 month ago

bangaranggerg (Anonymous) says…

"Just glad it wasn't Louise's West."

Amen!

KansasVoter 6 years, 1 month ago

Overland Park? Dang it! I made a bet that he was gonna be from Topeka, so I just lost $5.

Kryptenx 6 years, 1 month ago

Three counts of aggravated battery? Seriously?

zissou 6 years, 1 month ago

KansasVoter, did you make that bet against Joseph Abdullah Muhammad? Because I'm pretty sure he's the only one who would have taken it.

Raider 6 years, 1 month ago

Aggravated battery? Why not attempted murder? What a bunch of horse&^&!

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

Now that we caught the shooter, time for the City Commission to shut down the bar!

Anonymous_Officer 6 years, 1 month ago

It is not clear whether or not these were intended targets due to the fact the the suspect and the driver of the vehicle were both inside the bar for a portion of the night, and several witnesses stated that they were regulars of the bar, usually hanging out in the Martini Room. This is an unfortunate event, but things like this do happen all to common, and it was only a matter of time before it began here. I noticed that someone asked why aren't weapon and illegal drug checkpoints done...That would be virtually impossible. When doing DUI check points, officers are trained to watch for certain factors as a person is pulling up to a checkpoint, such as their driving coming up to the checkpoint. It's amazing how as soon as a someone is shot, everyone automatically assumes the shooters are from either Topeka or KC. This isn't some small town, this is a college town and people need to remember that when something like this happens. As far as violent crimes go, there are a lot, the only reason we don't hear about every one of them is due to media releases. Lawrence isn't some kind of perfectville where the "gangsters" come out of the big cities to relax folks. Which brings me to my next bit, I have gang experience. It's always the young, stupid, trying to make a name for themselves, punks that pull the stupid stunts. Because they see it in the movies. A majority of random acts of violence like this that are "gang related" are wannabe's trying to act big and bad. And I agree, dollar drink nights, and drink specials should be gotten rid of, especially during the middle of the week. Students need to remember that they are here to better themselves through education, not to drink their faces off and make poor descisions. That's a huge waste of mom and dad's money.

d2ylightf2ding 6 years, 1 month ago

you guys act as though no one has ever been shot in lawrence before! And topeka isn't really that bad...

Tony Kisner 6 years, 1 month ago

O.P. not really a surprise here, I know the 135st "Abercrombie’s" have been known to throw down at almost anything. I would imagine someone stepped on his new J. Crew sandals and didn't apologize. Although it is sad, when I was in school all I needed to do was ask the offender if they knew who my dad was and they would back down.

kmat 6 years, 1 month ago

sippinwhiskey04 (Anonymous) says…

“KMAT, did the 4th ammendment get violated a couple years ago at Wakarusa when the khp, lkpd, and DCSO searched all the vehicles and confiscated all drugs and “tobacco smoking accessories?””

Yes sippinwhiskey04 - my rights were violated when they were checking everyone because of Wakarusa. I commute on K-10. They had cops there too doing checks, only pulling over people they thought looked like hippies. I don't have to dress up for work, so I was in jeans and a T and heaven forbid I have long hair and a steal your face sticker on my car. I was targeted. The cop knew as soon as he saw my briefcase that I wasn't a druggie on my way to Waka. He couldn't give a reason for pulling me over and was not happy when I took his info and did proceed to call and complain to the highway patrol for being targeted for my looks.

We have 4th ammendment rights for a f*cking reason. You think we shouldn't have that right and can be searched at any time for any reason, then go move your ass to communist China.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

Anonymous_Officer (Anonymous) says… "It is not clear whether or not these were intended targets due to the fact the the suspect and the driver of the vehicle were both inside the bar for a portion of the night, and several witnesses stated that they were regulars of the bar, usually hanging out in the Martini Room."

Sounds identical to what happened at The Last Call, so tell me when will you lead the charge to have the bar shut down? This is largely a residential neighborhood and it is obvious that this bar is a public nuisance. When will Richard Heckler lead the charge? When will Booger and Mike call for closing? When will the police begin searching parked cars on the street? How many more students must be shot and injured before this hazard is closed and its greedy owner publicly identified and run out of town?

beawolf 6 years, 1 month ago

Actually aggravated battery is the crime.

Acts most often defined under aggravated battery are: use of a deadly weapon, battery in which serious bodily injury occurs, and battery against a child, woman or police officer.

First offense is up to 43 months in Kansas.

That's not to say the charge could not be escalated to attempted murder. But that usually occurs after more evidence is compiled.

BigAl 6 years, 1 month ago

ArumerZwarteHoop (Anonymous) says… Was it one of Obama's relatives maybe he knows where he is.


This sounds to me more like 5 deferment Dick Cheney. But I guess Dick doesn't shoot strangers, just his friends....

bombshell 6 years, 1 month ago

I went to highschool with Joseph. He's African American and his family practices Islam. But I haven't seen him since he was in one of my classes back then in OP.

It's a shock to see someone's name you recognize linked to such a heinous & random act of violence.

jaywalker 6 years, 1 month ago

I advise all not to take navajojoe as a rep for the Native American community. The forced collaquialism is idiotic and not a little offensive, and that's not a word I like to throw out there.
Seems like the MO of invictus.

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

Yeah, I was having a hard time taking him seriously.

Raider 6 years, 1 month ago

I'd call in the Feds just in case. Shooting a gun into a crowd of innocent people sounds an awful lot like terrorism to me. Make an example out of this a$$hole and maybe others will think twice before pulling this crap. I say charge him with being a terrorist. If he's turned loose, there's no telling what he'll do next.

tonymontana 6 years, 1 month ago

maybe he watched scarface too many times and thought he could be like me.

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

"First offense is up to 43 months in Kansas."

If he enrolls in KU he could get off with 2 weeks served on weekends so he won't miss any classes

Kryptenx 6 years, 1 month ago

Roe: What an ignorant comment. What makes you think that being enrolled at KU would entail a lighter sentence? The guy shot at a crowd of people, not acceptable behavior for anyone. Please cite specific examples if you're going to make such a baseless statement.

budwhysir 6 years, 1 month ago

MAN??? I didnt know real men shot guns into crowds and ran away like little girly men...

nobody1793 6 years, 1 month ago

"Muslims refrain from drinking alcohol so it is obvious he was not at The Hawk"

Just like Catholics abstain from premarital baby-daddy-ing?

jonas_opines 6 years, 1 month ago

RoeDapple: I'm going to just jump in and call that an invalid comparison. Drunk drivers do not generally get in their cars with the Intention of hurting or killing anybody. Firing a gun into a crowd shows clear intention to do harm. Whatever the results of the actions of drunk drivers, they do not qualify as pre-meditated assault or murder.

Any comparison should be made on comparable levels. If you're going to back up your claim, you should have evidence of this sort of specific act, with the only real variable being attendance at KU.

chicagoofficer 6 years, 1 month ago

a kid who goes to school on the south side of chicago gets shot in lawrence. wierd.

Keith 6 years, 1 month ago

A suspect has been found, but first, the weather.

archercc 6 years, 1 month ago

MsJayhawker, "I am amazed at some of these posts. It saddens me to think that people are so closed minded to think that nothing bad comes from Lawrence."

Umm, we were right. This guy wasnt from Lawrence.

I dont think anyone has said nothing bad has ever come from here (in fact, to the contrary). I just said that all of our violent scum are only "visiting."

Kryptenx 6 years, 1 month ago

Roe: You still did not produce anything that validates your statement. The kid didn't get 14 days on weekends, he got 14 days. While we all can agree that the sentencing in that case was pretty appaling, your statement is still baseless.

RoeDapple 6 years, 1 month ago

Okay, he served his time over Christmas break so he wouldn't miss any classes. If he hadn't left the scene that would have been one thing. He left a life long friend of mine to die so he could try to cover his crime. Would you be as objective if it was your friend? Doesn't matter to me, I call it the way I see it. He's back on the street, potentially could kill someone else, and my friend is dead. Joseph Abdullah Muhammad better have a rich daddy or he will do more time than a killer

lionheart72661 6 years, 1 month ago

Why is it everytime something like this happens the "RACE" card is thrown in? Let's see an eye witness said they saw a black man lean out the car and shoot so that is not racial profiling. As for the Last call that "DUMP" needed to be closed!! let's see i do believe the cops found an AK-47 in the trunk of a car of a Last call patron. How about the 15 year old kid that was i believe shot at Last Call. What was he doing in there? That was done by folks from Topeka. And if you open your eyes most of the violence didn't start at the other bars until they closed Last Call. Oh yes and Quantrills raid. Definetly not local!! Those guys were from Missouri. Phogfan whereever you are "STAY" because Lawrence is a great city. Unfortunately there is nothing we can really do about these idiots coming to our town and causing trouble unless we barricade it.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

BaxterC 6 years, 1 month ago

All I'm gonna say is that no one should be packing heat in Lawrence, I mean COME ONNNNNNN. Bring back wakarusa and all the hippies, I prefer them.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 1 month ago

I bet ol' Joe Mo' knows who was the driver!

seems like undercharging, again!

sitting around in the Martini Room, I don't think he was practicing Islam.


Why stop there? Why don't you find out where he lives and go and burn a cross on his lawn?

Oh, was he an AIG exec, too?

JoRight 6 years, 1 month ago

I know nothing of the law, but, why isn't he getting 3 counts of some sort of murder charge? I'm pretty sure when you shoot at someone(s) the intent is clear that you're wanting that person(s) dead. Why is it just battery?

Hoots 6 years, 1 month ago

jafs (Anonymous) says…

I read a while back that violent crime in Lawrence virtually doubled in 2007 or 2008.

Since I've lived in the area (10+ years), crime has increased noticeably and Lawrence has become a less pleasant place to live as a result.

Yes Jafs you are right. Have you looked at the world in general lately? It has all become a less pleasant place to live.

I'm just so glad none of the kids shot are dead. We can't say that for so many in some parts of the world.

I just hope they try this guy for 3 counts of attempted murder and send him away for life with no parol along with the friends that were with him.

Actually, I think the kids he shot at should be allowed to take the same number of shots at him and see how he feels. I bet they'd shoot better than he did. What a piece of human garbage. Too bad the days of stoning someone in the town square are long gone. Lets bring back the word stoner in a new light. I want one of the first throw.

Hoots 6 years, 1 month ago

You know what "logicsound04" if you throw trash on my lawn I'm going to make you pick it up. Last Call brougt it and we threw them out. You make a weak point that most other cities throw out with the trash like we did with Last Call. KC and Topeka do it all the time. That's why these morons end up here...then we have to throw them out too. But we are way too kind and take way too long. YES, all of the things I mentioned Last Call brought to this town...THUGS...THUGS...THUGS.

lionheart72661 6 years, 1 month ago

Thank you Defender, I see Sigmund is the racist hater here. I agree that he should be removed but his comment let stand so that all other entrants can see Sigmund for who he really is. Sigmund I pray for you and your racist attitude. All through here you called others racist when in fact noone else let out one single racist remark except for you. So go take a good long look in the mirror at yourself if you can stand to glare at hatred that long!!!

skinny 6 years, 1 month ago

Good Job Lawrence Police Department!

OldEnuf2BYurDad 6 years, 1 month ago

I think the problem is that young people used to go out unarmed, and now more and more of them go out armed. I blame, in part, the glorification of street violence in hip-hop. It is no longer just the hard-core gang leader who carries a gun. More and more young men "think" they need a pistol, and when they get drunk or stoned (and a little angry), they pull it out.

Something really has changed in recent years, that is undeniable. It's not a racial divide or a class distinction - it's something more. We have gun violence at all-black hip-hop events downtown... and we have gun violence at all-white frat-boy hangouts near campus. It is officially "everywhere".

sinverguenza 6 years, 1 month ago

OldEnuf2BYurDad says...

Get off my lawn you kids!

Seriously though, there definitely has been a change. I always thought (probably like everyone does) that I'd never grow up to be one of those people who complained about "kids these days."

But kids these days, well, they kind of suck a lot of the time. And kids and guns just don't mix unless you're out teaching survival skills and showing them how to respect themselves, the environment, and the gun.

justthefacts 6 years, 1 month ago

OK seriously people - The violence in Lawrence is not nearly as bad as in other places. We are shocked by it every time, which is a good thing. But how many shootings are there in other cities? Check out the stats. And secondly, the only way to end all violence forever is end all people forever. Because as long as there have been 3-4 humans on earth, at least 2 of them were fighting with each other! It is called "senseless violence" because it is senseless. There is really no way to 100% prevent it - even if you put metal dectectors at the gates of the city (someone would make a rubber gun, or bring in big wooden clubs). And there is no 100% effective way of predicting who is going to be the one acting up. There are alot of treatise and studies on how law enforcement or club owners can help spot and intervene in portential areas of trouble. But nothing short of human irradication is going to end violence completely.

chihuahua2 6 years, 1 month ago

I am glad they caught the guy that did the shooting but what they are charging with is bull he should have more charges. There are alot of other people that do alot less and get alot more charges. Let me be the judge and i'd lock him up and throw away the key. He is just going to do it again later when he gets out of jail. Those charges are just bull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

Until you know all the surrounding facts, complaining about the charges is pointless. Unless a prosecutor can PROVE beyond reasonable doubt that there was intent to kill, and not just injure, scare, intimidate, etc., murder is not the charge. Now, if more facts come out to show that there was intent to kill, or if this act was so reckless as to manifest an extreme indifference to the value of human life, then possibly second degree murder might be appropriate. There are arguments that firing into a crowd of people would satisfy that, but a defense attorney worth his salt could argue that the shots were aimed toward the ground (see the injuries to the lower body of both victims) and not intended to kill. Point is, agg. battery with a deadly weapon is still a fairly serious charge.

I am not defending this jackhole, and I hope he goes down hard, but unless you know the statutes he potentially violated and all the facts involved, quit whining. And, as the investigation continues, charges can be amended.

beawolf 6 years, 1 month ago

"but I still fear LPD more than I do any street thugs. "....

I'm continually amazed at the number of idiots on these boards.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

lionheart72661 (Anonymous) says… "Thank you Defender, I see Sigmund is the racist hater here. I agree that he should be removed but his comment let stand so that all other entrants can see Sigmund for who he really is. Sigmund I pray for you and your racist attitude. All through here you called others racist when in fact noone else let out one single racist remark except for you.""

Wow, who knew that a reference to the "saltines" on the City Commissions would cause such a commotion and a comment removed? Shocking I know!!

lionheart72661 (Anonymous) says… "So go take a good long look in the mirror at yourself if you can stand to glare at hatred that long!!!"

Buh bye! Where are you going?

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

I agree biggunz, how many days/weeks/months go by here in Lawrence, a city of nearly 100,000, where we DON'T hear about a violent crime? Things happen. It doesn't mean the city is falling apart.

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

I'm proud of the LKPD. They caught the D-bag quickly and professionally. Nice work guys. I still think we should blockade the inbound roads to the city from KC and T-Town.

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

lionheart72661 (Anonymous) says… “I agree that he should be removed but his comment let stand so that all other entrants can see Sigmund for who he really is."

BTW I too wish the comment would be reinstated so that all could judge my "racism" instead of imagining some horrid slur. Still those who wish to judge my racism should look at my other posts. nothing in that post was any different than these ... http://www2.ljworld.com/users/Sigmund/comments/

Nothing any different than ... Besides one guy gets shot outside of The Last Call with a black customers playing hip hop and it is justification to close the place and lynch the owner, but two people get shot outside of The Hawk and KU JackMartin_KUCommunications (Jack Martin) says… “there were no serious injuries.”

Sounds identical to what happened at The Last Call, so tell me when will you lead the charge to have the bar shut down? This is largely a residential neighborhood and it is obvious that this bar is a public nuisance. When will Richard Heckler lead the charge? When will Booger and Mike call for closing? When will the police begin searching parked cars on the street? How many more students must be shot and injured before this hazard is closed and its greedy owner publicly identified and run out of town? http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/mar/26/two-people-reportedly-shot-near-hawk/#c852109

Or this....

If I remember correctly the 15 year old was not in the club at all but on the sidewalk outside. Still a lynch mob and its righteous indignation and selective memories are hard to seperate. As you are well aware the closing “The Last Call” was not about making Lawrence safe for rich white college girls, it was a personal vendetta against the owner by several members of the current City Commission and other City of Lawrence officials. They just dressed it up in baggy pants, gold jewelry, painted the face black, blared hip hop music and then sent out the lynch mob led by Richard Heckler and the Looney Liberal Lawrence Sheeple bought it hook line and sinker and did their dirty work for them.

So send the cops to Club Axis or the Riverfront Plaza parking and have them look in the parked cars and you will begin to find drugs and guns there as well. Of course if you don't look you will never find. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/mar/26/two-people-reportedly-shot-near-hawk/#c851976

The only difference in the removed post is it reference "Saltines" on the City Commission, but it allows "Defender" and "lionheart" to bravely brand me as a racists.

Bob031800 6 years, 1 month ago

siipinwhiskey04 - if you blocked the roads then no one could get back home from work. Lawrence isn't really known for a wealth of in town job options. You lose Topeka and KC, and this town dies.

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

sorry bob, i was refering to checkpoints for illegal drugs and guns, cleverly disguised as legal Drivers license checks so we don't trample the 4th ammendment and get the ACLU and kmat's panties in a bunch.

sippinwhiskey04 6 years, 1 month ago

KMAT: Yes sippinwhiskey04 - my rights were violated when they were checking everyone because of Wakarusa. I commute on K-10. They had cops there too doing checks, only pulling over people they thought looked like hippies. I don't have to dress up for work, so I was in jeans and a T and heaven forbid I have long hair and a steal your face sticker on my car. I was targeted. The cop knew as soon as he saw my briefcase that I wasn't a druggie on my way to Waka. He couldn't give a reason for pulling me over and was not happy when I took his info and did proceed to call and complain to the highway patrol for being targeted for my looks.

We have 4th ammendment rights for a f*cking reason. You think we shouldn't have that right and can be searched at any time for any reason, then go move your ass to communist China.


I wouldn't mind being searched, but then again, I don't have anything to hide. If you aren't breaking the law, you have nothing to fear from the police. I obey the law, but rather than that fact making me a good American, KMart thinks it makes me a communist... Wow.

John Spencer 6 years, 1 month ago

"I bet they never catch these guys."

Dang, wish I had taken that bet.

KU216 6 years, 1 month ago

The guy that did this shooting "Joseph Muhhamed" was arrested on New Year's 2008 for pulling out a gun and telling everyone there he was going to kill them. He then fired his gun twice and ran off. He was caught later that night... I know this because I was there. He is a known drug dealer to the Olathe and Overland Park PD. Guess what? 5 counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon were plead down to 2 years of probation...NO JAIL TIME!!! Dont believe me? Look up his name on Johnson County Public Records. This just proves how terrible our justice system is. He should have STILL been in jail from that shooting. 3 people had to pay because our justice system is a joke!!!

Deja Coffin 6 years, 1 month ago

This is completely off subject but is there an article about the two young men in the obituaries today? It's just a really sad deal and I didn't remember hearing about a major car wreck or anything. Sorry to get off subject!

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

It was one year of probation with nearly a two year underlying sentence for the agg. assault in Jo. Co (although it looks like it was supposed to be two 11 month jail sentences running concurrently). It appears that he is still on probation (started in July 2008) so he will get revoked on that in Jo. Co. and he will probably do almost two years on those charges. Actually, upon further checking, he was supposed to appear in Jo. Co. for the probation violation today and didn't appear (prob. since he's sitting in Dg. Co. Jail) and there is a warrant out for him. If/when he's released pending trial in Dg. Co. he will be picked up on the warrant and taken to Jo. Co. and probably held there.

Bottom line is, if you commit a relatively minor crime and have little to no criminal history, Kansas sentencing is that you will be presumptive probation. Apparently that was the case with this guy. If you don't like it, talk to the legislature about the sentencing grid. But keep in mind that there aren't enough beds in jails right now for the people who "should" be behind bars.

KU216 6 years, 1 month ago

Thanks for clearing that up mdfraz. But frankly, I dont care if there are not enough beds in jail... That guy should have been in jail. And yes, he violated his probation by one not showing up and two, he had a failed drug test for cocaine! No matter how you look at it, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN JAIL...ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!! First offense or not, if you get a count or (5) of agg. assault (which it orignally was because I saw the police reports and I went to court that day to testify until he plead down) then you should go to jail for at least a few years. Slap on the wrist? For shooting at people..? C'mon now mdfraz, you know that is stupid!

kmat 6 years, 1 month ago

sippinwhiskey04 (Anonymous) says…

"I wouldn't mind being searched, but then again, I don't have anything to hide. If you aren't breaking the law, you have nothing to fear from the police. I obey the law, but rather than that fact making me a good American, KMart thinks it makes me a communist… Wow."

I had nothing to hide. But, there is no reason for police to be profiling and pulling over innocent people for no good reason. Do you understand what "PROBABLE CAUSE" is?

So in your perfect little f*cked up world, everyone would be constantly searched for weapons, drugs, etc.. for no reason. So every one of us that commutes outside the city for any reason should be searched to return home. Sure doesn't sound like freedom to me. And just where are we going to get the money to start searching every single person every time they venture from their homes, huh? Are you starting to see how stupid you look? I think you enjoy sippin that whiskey a little too much. Try sobering up and see what you think.

What you want sure sounds like China to me.

"The conditions are nothing less than incredible. Guards at numerous checkpoints on motorways leading into these areas – across several provinces of western China that are traditionally home to the Tibetan people – stop vehicles and search Tibetans from head to toe, according to one source. The road between Xining and Lhasa, a nearly three-day drive, is punctuated by no less than 18 police checkpoints.

Streets in such places as Lhasa, the capital of Tibet, are saturated with military police and army, although some have switched to plain clothes and now hide their weapons in cloth bags, following the return of foreign tourists in recent months.

Woeser, a Tibetan poet and commentator on Tibetan affairs, who visited Lhasa in August, tells of armed military patrols walking through the streets, guarding intersections 24 hours a day, and police armed with rifles and clubs manning every bus stop in the city, boarding each bus as it comes in to search all Tibetan passengers." http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=23068

Are you old enough to remember the Berlin wall? Should we just build a giant wall around Lawrence and have military checkpoints to enter?

You give a whole new meaning to stupid.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

Defender (Anonymous) says… "Sigmund, you're an arrogant and ignorant racist. There is nothing you can say or do to prove otherwise to the good people on this board."

Good people on this board? They let anyone here including you! I have had over 4300 posts and barely a dozen posts removed and I have been called lots of names, but never a racist. But a make one crack about some "Saltines" on the City Commission and you get to have my post removed (so that others cant judge for themselves) and cowardly call me a racist. The only thing disgusting here is your tiny little brain and smear tactics.

Still a lynch mob and its righteous indignation and selective memories are hard to separate. As you are well aware the closing “The Last Call” was not about making Lawrence safe for rich white college girls, it was a personal vendetta against the owner by several members of the current City Commission and other City of Lawrence officials. They just dressed it up in baggy pants, gold jewelry, the LJW painted the faces black, blared hip hop music and then sent out the lynch mob led by Richard Heckler and the Looney Liberal Lawrence Sheeple bought it hook line and sinker and did their dirty work for them.

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

KU, I'm not saying it's good or bad that he is on probation for the agg. assault charges. I'm just saying he is, and based on the sentencing guidelines, that's where he should be unless he had multiple person felonies or there was some reason to depart from the guidelines (which is fairly tough to justify). Agg. assault in his case is a severity level 7 person felony. That's the legislature's call. The punishment for that crime is 11 (low end with no criminal history) to 34 months (high end with 3+ person felonies on his history) in prison. Presumptive probation unless/until he had 1 person + 1 non-person felony on his record at the time of the agg. assault. Again, the legislature created the sentencing grid. Whether I think, or you think, or anyone else on the board thinks that's right or wrong, it's the law. So bashing cops or prosecutors because this guy got probation is stupid. If you don't like it, talk to your state legislators, but be willing to shell out more in taxes to pay for the new prisons and jails.

The guy was set for today on a probation violation way back in Feb. before he allegedly shot those guys the other night. I don't know the reason behind that probation violation, but I can virtually guarantee that when he faces that judge in Jo. Co. he will be going to serve his time on the agg. assault cases. And as far as it going from 5 counts, as charged, to two convictions, it's called a plea bargain, and like it or not, it's how the vast majority of criminal cases are disposed of. Our criminal justice absolutely could not function without allowing plea bargains. There are simply way too many cases.

And while they are very legitimate reasons for revoking someone's probation, failing a drug test and/or missing a court date are pretty mild compared to what a lot of people do to get revoked. For instance, Mr. Muhammad allegedly shot three people outside a bar. Again, not justifying drug use or drug dealing, but Charles Manson, this guy is not. I'm guessing you would be surprised at the number of people in society use cocaine, or MJ, or some other drug on a semi-regular basis. Again, not justifying it, just giving you a dose of reality. This guy did something dumb in Jo. Co., got probation, screwed it up, and will do his time on those charges. Plus, it sounds like he will be convicted in Dg. Co. and with his apparent criminal history, will probably do more time for these crimes. It's the way the world works.

KU216 6 years, 1 month ago

mdfraz... Try to explain all that fancy reasoning to the people that got shot. Now you made some very good points and obviously you have a very extensive backround with the law and the justice system, but this happens way too much. People get let off or that "slap on the wrist" and then they go out and do the same thing 10 times worse or more. I don't want to argue with you about the law...you would win and that is fine, but I am saying that guy SHOULD have been in prison already and then this would have never happened. I know, I know the world is full of terrible people and this stuff happens all the time, but it seems like we should do more to prevent it.

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

KU, I'm not justifying anything here one way or the other, just presenting facts. Again, if you or the guys who got shot are pi**ed off that this guy wasn't in prison because of his earlier convictions, go talk to the legislature. In fact, as a citizen with a gripe about the law, that's actually your duty. Whether I personally think Muhammad should have gotten probation is absolutely irrelevant. He didn't, and I have explained why. It's not for me or the justice system to try to convince the victims of the shooting; I would tell them the same thing I've typed above. And it doesn't mean that I don't care that they got shot. I do. But the issue you and I have been discussing is whether Muhammad should have been in jail for his previous crimes, and I'm telling you, BASED ON THE LAW, he should not have been. I appreciate your comments and this has been a much more civil exchange than some others I have witnesses/been a part of on here.

KU216 6 years, 1 month ago

mdfraz... I appreciate your comments as well and like I said before I do understand your point of view. But I was there on that New Year's night (2008) when this guy that I didn't even know started shooting up the place. It is hard to watch someone walk free after that...and then hear about them doing something like this. I know... "talk to the legislature" BUT WILL THEY REALLY LISTEN? Nope! Lets face it, this guy will get out in a few years and he will end up killing someone. This story has been written a million times. You talked earlier about not enough beds in jail to go around and now look...he will be sleeping on one of those for the next few years. I say to #ell with paying for more jails. I think if you commit a crime like this not once but twice you should get the "Limb Law" thrown at you. Cut off his arms and legs and let him go and make it so that he can't collect welfare or live off our tax money. That will save you and I a buck or two on those prison beds you wrote about too! Yup, no arms = can't shoot. No legs = can't run! Obviously this is radical to the extreme, but that is how I feel about this guy and what should happen to him. How would you feel about him if he shot at you? What if he shot one of your loved ones?? That's what I thought...

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

Easy, big guy. Don't get an attitude with me. I'm not justifying what he did, and in an earlier post I said I hope he goes down hard. He appears to be a piece of sh*t and personally I think harsher penalties are advisable, especially when there's a history of someone resorting to a gun to resolve the "problems" in his life.

However, I'm basically the messenger here. And I'm telling you the way to try and do something about it. If you don't think your legislator will listen, fine. But do you know until you try? And even if they don't, you have still exercised your right/duty as a citizen to make your voice heard. I realize this is personal for you, and I appreicate that, but even if you don't like it, the law is not and cannot be responsive to anyone who has a complaint about the legal system. There is no perfect system.

Although I don't think it would have been wise or safe if someone had a gun in that crowd to shoot back at a moving target, I certainly wouldn't have shed any tears if someone did exactly that and scored a hit on Mr. Muhammad. But, as it is, we can't change the past and we can only deal with what's in front of us. And my bet would be that Muhammad will be doing time on his Jo. Co. case and his Dg. Co. case. Just my thoughts.

KU216 6 years, 1 month ago

mdfraz.... I am not trying to get an attitude with you. I apologize if I came off arrogant or mean. I am just trying to express the frustration about all of it. Your right, I have not gone to my legislature and demanded they hear me. But again, that is an uphill battle. Yes, they may hear but I doubt they listen. Your comments and answers about all this are based off your knowledge for the law. Draw the line in the sand about What is right and What is wrong and that is final. My comments are based on personal feelings I have towards this coward who did this not once but TWICE!!! I do agree with you on some level especially about not shedding a tear had this guy ended up with a toe tag. But I don't think you will ever get where I am coming from unless you were in that situation. You can promote the local police force, the legislature, the justice system as a whole and you will pound your fist and do that well....right up until the point (god forbid) that someone you care about gets shot at or shot for no reason. Then I will want to hear how you feel. I get the law but I don't have to like it.

mdfraz 6 years, 1 month ago

You are right. I've never said you had to like any of this, and I noted that this is personal for you. And I understand why.

I guess my point is that your frustration is a bit misplaced, that's all. I totally understand that you are frustrated, but it should be with this piece o'sht (or his parents, or his friends who encourage this behavior, etc.; note that I don't blame the guns) and not necessarily the cops or prosecutors. They have to work within the bounds of the law too (and if they don't, or if people perceive that they don't, there's a whole new group of people that get pi*ed off). And although they may be able to pick out a lot of the people who will be repeat offenders, there is no real protection against someone POSSIBLY or POTENTIALLY commiting a crime at a future date. Unless and until another crime happens, we can't enhance someone's punishment for something they MIGHT do down the road. That sucks, but that's how it is.

I'm not minimizing your experience with this turd, nor am I saying you can't be frustrated or angry at what has happened. I guess to make that frustration constructive rather than just being mad at cops and prosecutors, maybe you could take steps to TRY to do something about it if you want to make a difference. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but at least you are taking your shot. Again, just my $.02 worth.

KU216 6 years, 1 month ago

I don't hold the power that the cops, prosecutors, and the DA do. If I had their power Joseph Muhammad would be in jail or dead from the first shooting. Sorry if that is blunt. But that is the way I feel. They took this guy (known drug dealer to the Police I mind you) and said "no priors and none of the bullets hit anyone...well okay, lets give him probation. That is suitable for almost killing people." NOT!!!! Now I know and agree you can't put someone away for a crime they may or may not commit in the future but I just have the opinion that giving a harsher penalty the first time around will make some of these idiots realize that if you mess up just once it will cost you big time. That could be the way to make some of these "repeat offenders" not repeat! Agg. assault with deadly weapon....5 years!!! NEXT!!!! And if you can't put em in jail put em in the ground because I dont feel good about paying for that a**hole to have 3 hots and a cot. Again, I understand the law but I just don't agree with it. How they could let this guy go so easy the first time is total BS to me and sorry to say but you will never change my mind on that!

Deja Coffin 6 years, 1 month ago

So.....who else just scrolled through the last 10 comments instead of taking the time to read all that.......by the way, found the article I was looking for. :-)

flux 6 years, 1 month ago

Shot him and ask questions later.

KSKid 6 years, 1 month ago

The people on this board really shouldn't be making so many assumptions about Muhammad. He went to my elementary school. He came from a loving upper middle class home, his parents were wonderful people and were very active with the school and the community. His brother is an Islamic scholar and is one of the nicest and most genuinely peaceful people I have ever met. What Muhammad did doesn't come as a surprise to people who have had interactions with him. Everything KU216 said is true, the kid is a hothead and is well known for being irresponsible with his firearm. This just proves to all parents that you can do everything right but sometimes the kid is just a bad egg.

lionheart72661 6 years, 1 month ago

Nice try to cover up your racist comment Sigmund when as you put it "crackers like you", you were not talking about the city commission so not only are you being racist you are also proving yourself to be a liar. Also in denial when in fact you know that Last call needed to be closed> Let me ask you this, Did you ever go there and if no then why not ?

nsx33 6 years ago

Ku216 I happen to be familiar with that new years incident as well. U forget to mention that his gf was attacked and had her nose broke by 3 people and he shot in the air he didn't even shoot at anyone. I am in know way justifying his actions but u have a very biased opinion of both situations. Lol and ur so quick to say hes a drug dealer, but yet the gentlemen's house u were at on new years deals hella drugs and u obviously hang out there so how about we lock you up. Or wait let me guess its ok for your friends Heather and Derek to deal drugs as long as they share them with you lol.

ksgirl09 6 years ago

joe deserves to be in jail. he has priors and thinks he is living in the 'real life' scarface. i have known him for quite some time now and his violence and actions have only gotten worse and will continue to if he is let off easy. what part of a convicted felon shooting at people do they not understand? he is going to continue to act like this. and dont blame his parents. they are good, kind people. something just went wrong with this one and he deserves to be behind bars. he will never learn his lesson!

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