Women outnumber, outperform men in higher education / LJWorld.com

Archive for Monday, August 21, 2006

Studies show gender gap widening nationwide

August 21, 2006

To overachiever Michelle Rissky, the difference between a passing grade and a failing one is the difference between an A and a B.

"I think I was geared at a young age that I could accomplish a lot and I had the capabilities and I should try," the Kansas University senior said.

Rissky, a premedicine student who has earned near-perfect grades in her college years, isn't alone in her high-achieving ways. Statistics show women both outnumber and outperform men at KU and other higher education institutions across the nation.

A recent report by the American Council on Education found that the gender gap is widening in higher education.

"I see the phenomenon all the time," KU psychology professor David Holmes said of his students. "The top 10, 15 percent of the class is largely women all the time."

A bit too lackadaisical?

At KU, where women outnumber men, female students earn higher grades and have better graduation rates. KU women earned an average GPA of 3.08 last spring, besting men whose combined GPA was 2.86.

And the picture is similar among women in KU's greek community. Sorority women in fall 2005 reported a higher average GPA of 3.11 compared with the 2.94 average among fraternity men.

Photo by Mike Yoder

Kelly Peters, an Overland Park junior at Kansas University, places sections of maps on the floor of her Western civilization class to form a representation of the world during the first day of classes. Women outperform men in college classes and tend to graduate earlier, according to a recent report by the American Council on Education.

"I think guys are just lazy," KU freshman Brian Ortega said. "In high school, they can get by with it. And then they get to college, and it's too different for them. I'm smart and I'm lazy, so we'll see what happens."

Chris Carr, a KU sophomore, said grades are important to him, and he'll try to get an A if he can. He hazarded a guess that the gender gap might be because of differences in levels of determination or in attention spans.

"I think guys, me for one, like to go out and have too much fun," he said.

The statistics point to a changed landscape. In 1975, men outnumbered women at KU, making up about 57 percent of the student population. But the transformation at KU came in 1988 - the first year when women outnumbered men by the slim margin of 50.2 percent. Women have continued to outnumber men ever since, according to KU's fall head count.

And the gap is evident even before students hit college. According to KU's Office of Admissions and Scholarships, KU received more applications from women than men for the summer and fall of 2005. There was a similar picture across all ethnic groups, except in the case of Asian American applicants.

Pushed to be perfect

Katherine Rose-Mockry, director of KU's Emily Taylor Women's Resource Center, said some research had found that women press to succeed out of necessity.

Audio Clips

"They don't have a sense that their futures are secure," she said.

It's a factor some students also point to.

"A lot of guys just kind of have a streamlined life," said Surya Lakhanpal, a KU freshman from Olathe. "They go through. They get grades. They get a job. Women have to work harder in this world to make it - more than men do."

But some studies also have pointed to the perfectionist factor.

"At an early age, women have internalized messages that in order to be OK, you have to be better, you have to be essentially perfect at what you do," Rose-Mockry said.

Rissky, who will be recognized as one of KU's Women of Distinction this fall, said she's been something of a perfectionist since she was young.

"My preschool teacher will still talk to this day about how I was a slow and meticulous student," she said. "I always took the longest at the scissors exercises."

Those who watch the trends also point to disparities among races and socioeconomic groups.

In the 2004-05 school year, KU awarded more than 3,600 bachelor's degrees to students at the Lawrence and Edwards campuses. The vast majority of those students - 3,090 - were white, while 86 were black, 43 were American Indian, 137 were Asian and 102 were Hispanic.

KU officials say minority enrollment is increasing and there are efforts under way to improve retention of those students.

Minority enrollment for the fall 2005 semester stood at 11.8 percent of total enrollment. That was up from 9.7 percent in 2001.

Discussion

LJWorld.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post.
Read our full policy. Also, read about banned accounts and harassing comments.

21 August 2006
at 5:48 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

audvisartist (Anonymous) says…

Those with too much school smarts, from what I've seen, tend to be unsure of themselves in real-world situations. My baby's momma (yes, I just used the term baby's momma) had pretty much a 4.0 through undergrad and a 4.0 as a grad student at KU. She was the prototype for the “slow and meticulous” student described above. While she blew away other students in school, she was constantly unsure of herself and always thinking that she'd done poorly on a test or was going to fail a class. How can this possibly be a good thing for a person to go through? I'll take my 3.4 with confidence over a 4.0 with a gray cloud constantly hanging over my head any day! And to semi-quote the movie Office Space… “It's not that us guys are lazy, it's that we just don't care!”
21 August 2006
at 7:36 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

belle (Anonymous) says…

Why do we have to make so many excuses for the boys? They don't get excuses. If the women's scores were lower, it would just be that they are not as smart.

So I'm saying, maybe the men just aren't as smart! If they were smart, they would do their work.
21 August 2006
at 8:49 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

Redzilla (Anonymous) says…

Belle, it is interesting how many men prefer to ascribe any academic failings to a lack of effort. As though failure to try harder is a lesser form of failure. Put it in caveman perspecive: If a lion is chasing you, being smart won't mean anything if you're not willing to run faster.
21 August 2006
at 9:10 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

estespark (Anonymous) says…

Just to stoke the coals a little - could coursework have anything to do with the GPA argument? There are not a lot of girls majoring in Finance, Accounting, Engineering or any of the pure sciences. I have no empirical to substantiate my claim, since I'm a dawdling male. Regarding Professor Holmes claim that the top 10-15% of his students are female - I've taken two of his classes and I would estimate well over 65% of his students are women. Maybe that's why I took two of his courses.

All this being said - the woman I work for and my female coworkers are simply brilliant.
21 August 2006
at 9:36 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

BrianR (Anonymous) says…

Speaking as someone who has been an employer off and on for two decades the math is simple 4.0 = nothing. It is obviously not an indicator of how someone will perform in the real world.

My unscientific finding is that people with degrees in English outperform people with other degrees.
21 August 2006
at 11:22 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

misplacedcheesehead (Anonymous) says…

Hot Darn! Finally proof that–

men drool and women rule!!
(Mr. Woodring; I hope you read this.)
21 August 2006
at 12:07 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

I bet hormones play a role in this. The men go to college and don't pay attention to anything other than the women. The women go to college and ignore all the sick perverts staring at them.

21 August 2006
at 2:06 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

SpeedRacer (Anonymous) says…

Could this be the result of the re-tooling of the education system over the last 30 years which now favors the way females learn as opposed to the way males learn? How about the “alternative” schools such as trade and technical schools which have blossomed during that time…I wonder if the same results would be reflected there.
21 August 2006
at 4:32 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

Bad_Brad (Anonymous) says…

I have often wondered why this phenomenon doesn't get a lot more press than it does. If the shoe was on the other foot - i.e. if men were gaining dominant presence on college campuses instead of women, the press and countless Liberal groups would be up in arms. I am a bit amazed that Women's groups in particular don't trumpet this as a huge success story of the last 30 years. My guess is that these same groups want to keep this dirty little secret under wraps, lest they lose their coveted victim status in other arenas.

Aside from that, I would proffer a few comments here:

1. Women in general probably feel like they have more at stake in college than men do. Men, in general, feel they can still make a reasonable living in a number of different professions (firefighter, construction worker, factory worker, general contractor, etc) if they do not make it through college. Women, on the other hand, may feel pretty much doomed to be housewives if they do not make it through college. Not that there is anything wrong with being a housewife (my wife stays at home with our daughter), but to many women, they would see that as some sort of failure.

2. The very difficult majors at most colleges (particularly engineering) which afford very good careers right out of school have very few women, while some of the softer majors (i.e. psychology, english, poli sci, etc) which really don't offer you much of anything with a bachelor's degree tend to have a clear majority of women.

3. Public schools have greatly changed in the last two generations, from favoring a learning style that is inherent in most men (fact-based, straight-forward, black-and-white) to a learning style that is inherent in most women (feelings-based, focused on communication, more nuanced, with shades of gray). As a result, the tide has largely turned, and women now excel quite often where men struggle when it comes to college.

4. I think women of this generation feel that they really have something to prove, since not all generations of women enjoyed the opportunity that they have to go to college and succeed. It's as if they feel a burden to succeed to show that those who worked hard for that right did not waste their efforts. Men feel no such pressure and have no such extrinsic motivation.
21 August 2006
at 5:03 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

I don't agree that public education is now “geared” towards women. I just think teachers started paying just as much attention to girls, since they are no longer doomed to serve their men in the home. To claim that women aren't able to learn facts and straight-forward teachings is just plain idiotic. Once schools learn to push girls in math and science, we will see more women in fields such as engineering. Leave the feelings-based stuff in religious schools.
21 August 2006
at 5:07 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

paladin (Anonymous) says…

We formerly lived in a patriarchal society. We now live in a matriarchal society. It follows that Women would, and have, gained dominance in all areas of society. Other characteristics of the world we live in include the decline of the nuclear family unit as a functional foundation and orientation of social order and cohesion, rampant drug addiction, widespread moral corruption in government and business and interpersonal relations, people who are self-centered and self-absorbed and self-serving and duplicitous and manipulative and dishonest and opportunistic and, lots of times just not very nice to each other, and an economic and social future that is doubtful. Is there a connection? I couldn't say.
21 August 2006
at 5:11 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

srj (Anonymous) says…

Esquire did a very good article about this a couple of months ago. Stuff like boys are much more likly to have ADD and so forth amounts to alot more women in college then men. They also said boys are just board in school, while girls want to learn.
21 August 2006
at 5:19 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

classclown (Anonymous) says…

Most likely short skirts and flirtatious eyes have a lot to do with it.

:P
21 August 2006
at 5:34 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Which, the dropping of men's GPAs or the rising of womens?

Both?

Hell, though, I know there were a few classes that the only reason I went was for a particular girl in my class.
21 August 2006
at 6:20 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

Tychoman (Anonymous) says…

Yes. Guys are lazy. It didn't show until women started making grades for themselves and now by comparison, guys appear lazy.

This is a pointless article, trying to make everything so competitive. I just try and get through the day, not worry about how my gender is performing compared to another one.

21 August 2006
at 6:23 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

davisnin (Anonymous) says…

Women are much more likely to ask for help as well. By help I mean when they skip class or get too drunk to study for the test they are much more likely to get to make it up. I know more than one girl that would go to the TA several times a week and end up getting all their work done for them.
Women are less likely to skip studying because a dude wants to come over. When the shoe is on the other foot the guy.. yeah he'll get an F for @ss
3 more reasons
Coms
Social Welfare
Women's Studies
21 August 2006
at 6:23 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

GardenMomma (Anonymous) says…

Estespark,

I don't think coursework has much to do with it. I have a Bachelor's in Accounting and the classes were about 50/50. I also have an MBA and the student ratio was about 60-70% women in all my graduate courses. I now teach a Business course at the undergraduate level and the student ratio is still about 50/50.
21 August 2006
at 8:06 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

powershopper (Anonymous) says…

I didn't finish school. I dropped out my junior year and have experienced more successes than most who graduated with a Masters. College is a waste of time, and money. I work in IT with brilliant minds. Some of them attended college, some did not. There is no disparity in their wages.

That being said. I have worked for both men and women in my professional career and have walked away from both with good and bad experiences. For the men on this stream putting down women, you sound like a bunch of p*ssies. For those of you women doing the same thing to the men, you come across like a bunch of insecure b*tches.

In closing….I am praying to the almight that Hillary gets knocked out in the primaries!
21 August 2006
at 9:05 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

compmd (Anonymous) says…

I've been a long time denizen of Learned Hall, and although there are more girls there, the disparity is still huge. Why? I dunno. Maybe the thought of 18 hours of engineering classes in a semester don't sound thrilling. Maybe the idea of spending a few nights in a lab just seems crazy. I don't know.

I was recently impressed though this summer. I helped with KU's Project Discovery, a camp which gives high school girls exposure to engineering. I was taken aback at how many bright, capable, and driven young women there were participating.

For any computer/electronics guys, if you can ask a cute girl if she knows where to get a 74 series low power schottky monostable multivibrator, and instead of getting slapped and called a pervert, you get an answer and start a conversation about digital circuits, you found a keeper. :)
21 August 2006
at 9:16 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

bmwjhawk (Anonymous) says…

yes. cleavage, drool. what?
21 August 2006
at 9:18 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

davisnin (Anonymous) says…

compmd, she doesn't exist
21 August 2006
at 9:39 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

compmd (Anonymous) says…

oh davisnin, that's not very optimistic! I know several brilliant, attractive, and capable girls in engineering. My favorites are aerospace with EECS a good runner up. Most recently I dated a lovely girl with a masters in aerospace engineering who works for a defense contractor. We'd sit around and talk about high performance IC engines, automatic flight controls, and properties and applications of composite materials.

Seriously.
21 August 2006
at 9:50 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

ForThePeople (Anonymous) says…

Anything boys can do……girls can do better!…..LOL!

21 August 2006
at 10:09 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

Yeah, but women just can't cut it on construction sites.
21 August 2006
at 10:13 p.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

paladin:

I can't remember if I like you or not, but that was a great post at 5:32, or whatever.

You caught at least a true facet of the rough diamond that is our circumstances.
22 August 2006
at 2:13 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

OmegaPaiN (Anonymous) says…

“Once schools learn to push girls in math and science, we will see more women in fields such as engineering.”

This precisely illustrates my opinion on the subject. To make up for the second class status that women had for so long, the goal for the system and society in general has been to attempt to accomodate and encourage women in every way.
Meanwhile no one is considering how to motivate or what all the catering to females does to the men. Hopefully we're considering that right now.
22 August 2006
at 5:54 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

classclown (Anonymous) says…

Posted by ForThePeople (anonymous) on August 21, 2006 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anything boys can do……girls can do better!…..LOL!

=====================================

Can you write your name in the snow?
22 August 2006
at 11:26 a.m.

Suggest removal

Permalink

deskiedennis (Anonymous) says…

Who is that dashing young fellow in the yellow?