LJWorld.com

displacedsunflower (Anonymous) says…

Reality TV would be more interesting to watch if the participants were not manipulated as much, & if we could see more of what really goes on.

As far as Mrs Frei's non-religion, Christians don't seem to be open-minded to the fact that agnostics & atheists can be as moral & happy as Christians. I have seen many 'Christians' not be very moral & happy, which means that they are not putting their religion to work for them.

Ragingbear (Anonymous) says…

I saw this show last week. Repeatedly the Xtians were going “If they aren't teaching God, then what are they teaching? They can't be teaching anything moral.” Completely missing the point.

audvisartist (Anonymous) says…

“Exhausting experience…” Yeah, it's exhausting having to wake up early on a Sunday morning and go to church. That's what drove Anton LaVey to come up with the Church of Satan. You know he was actually a fundamentalist Christian but he just couldn't keep up with the Sunday church services and the Wednesday Bible study. Oh, and don't forget those pot luck dinners. It consumed his entire schedule to the point that he decided he needed to do something different. And he did. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Kuku_Kansas (Anonymous) says…

I have been watching 30 Days since it started airing. This Lawrence-connection episode was a great one!

Brenda was very calm, composed, rational and capable of sharing her logic/reasoning, despite the potential responses.

By the end of the episode, the Shores family was able to begin to communicate the same way, although the father was still not able to get beyond, “what does an atheist have to live for? where do they get their hope?”

It appeared, to me, that Brenda did not ever try to conform the Shores family…but, the Shores certainly have the goal of converting Brenda. They couldn't fully embrace and respect her decision and “beliefs,” which is a shame, but to be expected.

Strontius (Anonymous) says…

My experience with Christians has been that even the more liberal ones are not open-minded about non-religious people, but still have the gaul to claim that secular people are narrow-minded, as one person Spurlock interviewed on the 30 Days show claimed. Of course there was also the guy who said the word “atheist” translated into “communist” which is so far from the mark that it could only have come from a regimented dose of religious non-sense.

These sentiments don't arise on their own. Preachers are spreading hateful messages about secular people, creating a fear that has and will continue to spark threats and violence towards innocent people.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

Why did they choose a former Christian for this project? There wasn't anything new for her to experience, other than getting to know a family.

They should re-do the show, and this time, send a person who was raised as an atheist to live with a Christian family.

ryanjasondesch (Anonymous) says…

Did it ever occur to Mr. Shores that happiness in THIS life can be a hoped-for goal? Fundamental Christian mistake of hoping for a life that may or may not exist at the expense of the one that surely does. I happened to be flipping channels and caught this show, I liked it. Thank you Mrs. Frei for representing Lawrence, you did a fantastic job. And I used to live right down the street from you and didn't even know it.

lunacydetector (Anonymous) says…

…and in the end, when an atheist is on their deathbed, how many turn to Jesus at that very last freethinker moment?

that's what i'd like to see a study about.

frankly, i feel sorry for her or any other atheists' children.

Moderateguy (Anonymous) says…

If I want to explore the trials and tribulations of an agnostic trying to communicate with a fundamentalist, all I have to do is go out to dinner with my mother-in-law. I don't need to watch a t.v. show; I live it!

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

There is a fundamental misunderstanding propagated by *some* Christians that the “values” they hold are “Judeo-Christian” values. However, many of the values (not harming people, etc…) are human values, from which *some* Judeo-Christian values are drawn.

People of the myriad faiths (or of no faith at all) can and are “good people” and they don't need a book or an identified source to be good. Cooperation emerges in societies naturally, as the brain has developed (evolutionarily) the ability to control our primal urges. Although the Golden Rule serves most well, there are even problems with that basic tenet of doing unto others.

lunacy, probably a lot fewer than you would expect. So, when a study supports that finding, what is it you will accept from it? Or will you focus on the 1% that have some “revelation” as the biological processes behind “white lights” and “tunnels” take effect on perception and use that 1% as a “aha, see they are accepting Jesus on their deathbed.”

And why are Christians so darn intent on maintaining THIS life if there is an afterlife that is so wonderful!?

ModSquadGal (Anonymous) says…

jayhawks71:
Christians are all “goody goody” in THIS life because if they aren't, their GOD will take it all away from them because HE is a vengeful and mean task master God who doesn't really love them unless they do and say what HE says they should.

Gotta eat your liver for dinner if you want ice cream for dessert.

DonnieDarko (Anonymous) says…

LunacyDefective: Let's do a parallel study at the same time—how many “Christians” on their deathbed realize that they have wasted their entire lives to nonsense based on a book of mythology?

That's what I'd like to see a study about.

Frankly, I feel sorry for the children of fundamentalists since most of them never had a chance to think for themselves in the first place. The rote answers given by the Shores' daughter in the show confirm this.

DonnieDarko (Anonymous) says…

No, “rightthinker”….Christians are empy, boring people.

There, it's settled.

Mari (Anonymous) says…

It seems to me that this epsiode had more to do with the experience of the Christian family having an atheist in their midst than of the atheist being surrounding by Christians. After all, we atheists spend most of our lives surrounded by Christians.

I really liked Brenda and thought that she did a remarkable job staying calm, cool, and collected.

Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho (Anonymous) says…

There's nothing wrong with having religion in one's life, and accepting the fact that people have different beliefs. I'm happy to hear about all sorts of religions, Bhuddists, Judaism, Mormonism, etc. Too many people are narrow-minded and say “I'm right and they're wrong!” That goes for fundamentalists and atheists alike.

audvisartist (Anonymous) says…

You know what I'd like to see on the show?! Have a guy from the Minuteman group (you know, the ones that want to patrol the borders and stuff) live with a family of “illegal” immigrants! I think that'd be awesome!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

I think there was such a show, audiovisartist, but I think they sent him to Mexico. I didn't see the show, though. Did anyone else?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

rednek—

Why do you think a vegan diet is more expensive that a meat-based diet?

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

jabo- probably because it is.

RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says…

Is it possible to actually be an agnostic atheist?

If you believe that it is impossible to know if there is a god or not, then how can you say there is no god?
If you believe there is no god, then how can you say it is impossible to know if there is a god or not?

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

The producers were correct that a show about a fundamentalist living with athiests would be bad TV. The atheists would live their normal lives and the fundamentalist would do the same. The atheists would not force actions or beliefs on the fundamentalist. There is no atheist lifestyle or orthodoxy or dogma to force upon someone else.

I find the comments of the fundamentalists on this site amusing and illuminating. They want so badly to be validated that they cannot stand the existence of people who are not exactly like them.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

I would think that most “atheists” are actually “agnostic” about the concept of god. In a practical sense they are atheists, meaning that whether or not god exists does not really matter in the day-to-day existence of humans.

Either there is no “god” or the acts of this “god” are so arcane or indirect or miniscule or universal to make it a moot point.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“jabo- probably because it is.”

It most certainly could be more expensive, if someone wanted it to be, but it doesn't have to be.

As a matter of fact, if the massive subisidies given to factory farming were removed, meat-eating would be extremely expensive— especially if the environmental impact is included in the cost of the meat produced.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

Marion,

Sounds good. I bet your husband will enjoy that dinner.

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

jabo, farmers aren't getting subsidized?

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

ywn, i almost spit out my drink. Do you know anything about Marion or was you comment about his husband an honest error?

Marion, how IS your husband these days? :-)

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

sw, I thought it was “you can't bring your pudding on an airplane.” but I think that must be a new concept.

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

Religions are bad. They are obsolete. They encourage sectarian hostility. They insist on intruding into public policies, instead of remaining in their pulpits, synagogues and mosques. They continue to propagate ignorance and credulity - heaven, hell, Satan, souls, virgins in paradise, Chosen People of God (my favorite) - at the expense of truth and reason. It will require a planetary convulsion - such as that beginning in the Middle East - for people to grasp that religions are bad, they are obsolete, they are much more trouble than they are worth.

Secular humanism is good. It encourages individual initiative and advocates that individuals work to attain as fully as possible their potential. Secular humanism is the triumph of truth and reason over ignorance and superstition; secular humanists work within empirical science to increase the breadth and scope of human knowledge.

Let religions die. Help them die if you can. They are a curse on humankind, and, once extinguished, should never be allowed to exist again.

audvisartist (Anonymous) says…

Religions will never go away because they give mankind a little cubbyhole to place their beliefs in. And no matter what you may think, secular humanism is just another one of those little cubbyholes. People just aren't capable of grasping the whole picture necessary when it comes to things beyond our physical existence so they place labels on what they can grasp, and in the case of religion, thousands, millions, or billions of other people grab on to those labels and make them their own. I think it's rather narrow minded to say that religions are a curse on humankind and should never be allowed to exist again. While religion (more correctly zealots working in the “name of a religion”) has brought about wars, intolerance, etc., many wonderful things have also been brought about by organized religion or its institutions (art, music, literature, societal development, service to the poor, medical care, etc.) Religions should not die, for many require their rigid and dogmatic views to have a sane existence in this world. Instead, the voices of narrow minded individuals that present themselves as the “know all” in these religions, or in the case of xenophonschild the “know all” in a philosophical system such as secular humanism, should be drowned out to a whisper by those with a more open minded view.

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

audvidartist:

The history of Western Europe over the last thousand years is essentially one of people struggling to escape the power of theocracy.

It is an on-going process, in which religion must be excised from civilization if that civilization is to survive and prosper.

Learn to see the big picture.

Shaloon (Anonymous) says…

“It is an on-going process, in which religion must be excised from civilization if that civilization is to survive and prosper.”

I've been living in China for 19 years and can see firsthand the fallacy of that statement. Trying to excise religion from China nearly annilhilated any form of real “civilization” and certainly did not bring prosperity!!! It's only as China has stopped trying to excise religion and other forms of personal human expression that prosperity and civilized behavior are beginning to emerge once again.

person184 (Anonymous) says…

Finally some interesting dialogue on these boards.

Rationalanimal (Anonymous) says…

The very premise demonstrates the arrogance of the liberal intelligentsia elite. It presumes an inductive fallacy that all christians are intolerant foaming at the mouth radicals—a very vogue thing in the Merikian times we live in.

The reality is, those that claim to be the most tolerant, are only tolerant if you lock step share the same ideology. Ask any one surviving communist U.S.S.R. how tolerant the atheist institution was to christians there. Let's also not forget the christians who were burned at the stake throughout Roman empire, or those that were fed to lions for sport.

I know, I know, the come back is, look at the crusades and all the wars started by christians, the suffering, the inhumanity. The same people making that argument overlook the violence of islam today and call you an intolerant racist if you even breath the world muslim facism. That same argument, or something similar to it, was the justification for the stake burning and lion feeding. So, before you condescend from your throne of liberal intelligentsia and point out christian intolerance, give tolerance a try yourself.

This is nothing more than a disingenuous jab at christians wrapped up in a liberal created code word, aka “tolerance”. Such a term is nothing more than an irrational liberal concept contrived and used to browbeat others into conforming to a political ideology.

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

Shaloon:

Interesting that you live in China.

Practicing a religion is a form of personal human expression, but Confucianism and Buddhism are not lethal like the religions like we have in the West.

It is a legitimate concern here that the old sky-god religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) will be the death of us all, with the unending hatred between Islam and Judaism igniting a world war which will involve everyone but the Far East.

While you might be closer, and thus a better judge, it seems to some here that China's prosperity began when it allowed American manufacturing/retail companies in to take advantage of cheap labor.

Hope you join this board and contribute regularly. There are many questions I'd like to ask about China.

Rationalanimal (Anonymous) says…

And the tolerance demonstrated by:

“Let religions die. Help them die if you can. They are a curse on humankind, and, once extinguished, should never be allowed to exist again.”

is to be considered vastly superior to religion.

How does one propose to exterminate religion from the earth without exterminating those that carry the conviction in their hearts? Lenin did it by the bullet to many a head, and Siberia concentration camps to the rest. What benevolent tolerance he must have had for the greater good of society. There was another prominent world leader about 60 years spewing that same garbage. He wrote a book if your interested, its titled “Mein Kampf”. You probably would find it an enlightening read given your demonstrative penchant for liberal tolerance.

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

Rationalanimal:

Don't feel it's a question of tolerance.

Here in America, we can help religions to oblivion by joining and participating in secular humanism, and by limited their impact on the young so the future will be much more secular and much less traditional religion. That is essentially what is happening in our society now; children may be exposed to religion, but as adults they shed it and live rationally, as disciples of truth and reason.

Unfortunately, we do not have as potent effect overseas. One reason Islam - a truly vile religion - is so radically opposed to the West is our secularism, and how it reduces religion to insignificance. Islam is a form of brain-washing, one that sublimates every individual initiative to “God,” and is the mortal enemy to our way of life and thought.

Judaism is an equally vile religion. Their irrational belief that they are “The Chosen People of God” would be somewhat tolerable if they were not thieves who stole most of the land that comprises Israel, and if they did not treat the victims of their crimes - Muslims and Palestinians - like second-class citizens.

“Mein Kampf” was essentially nationalistic gibberish.

Please note that I'm an extremely liberal Democrat, and generally loathe fundamentalist Christian conservative Republicans.

Shaloon (Anonymous) says…

It would be difficult for a government to attempt to eradicate “old sky-god religions” without having a controlling mind-set that carries over into other forms of freedom of expression, as well. Deng Xiao Ping recognized that such a controlling mind-set was holding China back from becoming the prosperous society that it once was, and so he initiated the drastic economic reforms we see today. (http://www.worldwidelearn.com/great-thin…) In other words, the growth in prosperity actually began with Deng’s immortal declaration: “…to get rich is glorious!” Although his motivation was economic rather than religious, the underlying factor was still a realization that prosperity does not come when there is over-whelming government control of the people’s personal initiatives.

jayhawks71 (Anonymous) says…

Atheists are just awful people, watch this video to see how evil atheists really are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-k…

I know it won't change your judgmental minds, but of course, we know that you don't judge, you just…. form opinions…

Shaloon (Anonymous) says…

Holygrailale:

I've never lived in Lawrence, but our sons go to KU — which is how I got started reading the LJWorld regularly. Yes, I am still here in China.

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

Don't recommend that our government, or any formal government, set out to eradicate religion.

Rather, the growth of secular thought should be adequate to the task. For example, people once thought that the world was flat. Secular thought showed otherwise and now almost no one believes what, only a few hundred years ago, was widely considered truth.

Encouraging the growth and sustenance of secular thought will hopefully be enough to send religion - or at least the most offensive nuances of Christianity here in America - into oblivion; unfortunately, the same can't be said for Islam and Judaism abroad.

prioress (Anonymous) says…

“Practicing a religion is a form of personal human expression, but Confucianism and Buddhism are not lethal like the religions like we have in the West.”

“Let religions die. Help them die if you can. They are a curse on humankind, and, once extinguished, should never be allowed to exist again.”

“One reason Islam - a truly vile religion - is so radically opposed to the West is our secularism, and how it reduces religion to insignificance.”

A few thoughts: Religions, in their present form will eventually die as enlightenment spreads (think Rennaissance.) Trying to kill them off is pointless; Islam is not “vile” but some of its radical elements are. This is as silly as using the Phelps family as an example of christianity.

Unfortunately, eastern religions have also slaughtered “the other” in the name of a loving god, just like we do in the west.

Live and let live, I say, as long as the religious nuts keep their doctrines out of public policy.

A Joke: Know the difference between a terrorist and a liturgist? You can negotiate with a terrorist.

Peace, Prioress, a recovering christian………

Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…

It is SOOOO apparent that so many posters didn't watch the damned show! You should be embarrased, but I'm never surprised by the negativity of The Usual Suspects.

75x55 (Anonymous) says…

Yawn… is it Groundhog Day? Again?

xenophonschild (Anonymous) says…

Societies evolve too, and at one point in their evolution they no longer require religions. We are approaching that wonderful plateau, and can only hope other societies will be able to someday.

Religions serve a purpose, just as buggy-whip makers served a purpose before the advent of Henry Ford.

jimincountry (Anonymous) says…

Today I watched the 30 day T V show I had taped.
Mrs Frei is really a joy. Thanks for the insight to atheism I have overlooked. Unfortunately, many of us think of Madelyn Murray when we think of women atheists.

Rationalist (Anonymous) says…

“Is it possible to actually be an agnostic atheist?

If you believe that it is impossible to know if there is a god or not, then how can you say there is no god?
If you believe there is no god, then how can you say it is impossible to know if there is a god or not?”

–

Atheist: one who does not believe in god.
Agnostic: regardless of belief, one who claims not to KNOW if his/her beliefs are true.

Agnostic atheist: one who does not believe in god, but does not claim to KNOW that their BELIEF is true.