Dec. 25, 2014 |
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A $190 million tax $$$$$$ pork barrel project that will increase local taxes and user fees to meet developer demands for construction projects Lawrence,Kansas will not be able to support.
If real estate growth paid for itself and was financially positive, we would never be in a budget crunch. Never be asked to accept increased taxes and user fees. But with increased numbers of real estate projects Lawrence, Kansas increases demands on services, and historically the funding of revenues generated by new real estate projects does not pay for the services, they require from a municipality.
Why not IMPACT FEES or EXCISE TAXES? Local real estate developers have had a great time laughing all of the way to the bank on the backs of taxpayers.
The root of the problem are incorrect decisions by way of city commissions.
Taxpayers on old east sides of town are paying for subsidizing the growth caused by the developers in the south,west and northwest part of town. What's up with that??
The south, west and northwest parts of town is where the greatest residential growth is being seen. There has been so much growth in recent years that the city thinks it needs a new sewage treatment plant, needs to extend 31st street,thinks it needs more light industrial property which is caused by artificial economic growth aka bedroom community.
Developer Impact fees and excise taxes are legal. Either of these would provide the community with extra revenue instead of always asking taxpayers to make up the any difference related to new NOT NECESSARY development.
In order for the city to have orderly growth, developers should be responsible for all expenses related to new infrastructure. Most builders understand impact fees or excise taxes are for a purpose that improves their big profit making developments.
It was the likes of you and Eye and the rest of the enviro-friendly bunch that drove these cost through the roof. Due to the litigation, and stall tactics employed by the opposition the cost of this project has tripled it's original price tag.
The next time you want to spout off about the cost of a project you need to look no further then the mirror to guess how the figure got so high. You and the like are to blame for this one.
Thank you Armstrong. Very well stated.
Think about this....with all the fracking; high pressure, sand and chemicals. That new project is going to barely last 5 years. There will be more retro fitting issues and cracking like a dropped mirror, Betcha!! Now that's a waste of tax payers dollars, and you all will probably have to pay again. There are normal voids in the earth and they can't tell when they're fracking where those voids are, so if and when they hit one of those voids, which is often.............crack...... crack....Ccccrrraaarack. There goes your project and your tax dollars right down the hole they created. Those Engineers should re-evaulate their plans, if they understand anything about structures, which is doubtful. The ground requires settlement and that takes years!
Some great articles to educate yourself about fracking....
Is anybody fracking close to the SLT?????
It is about time. So happy when I don't have to hit 50 lights to get through the south side of Lawrence. This project is long overdue. Also, I am pretty sure the cost of the project has way more than tripled.
I believe the initial estimate was $60/M
Kylechandler:If you knew anything about how long this was in the works you would understand why it was 60 million but sense you probably weren't born yet.
Yea 30 years ago but due to circumstances we should have controlled!!!!
White US Courts sanctifying the theft of tribal lands as was done in the 1950's....
Indigenous peoples have witnessed theft sanctified by courts for a couple of
centuries now. The illegal seizure of the Black Hills in 1874 and the attempted
bribe for the theft of Paha Sapa in 1980 by the US government.....The forgery
of Kiowa signatures to allow theft through allotment of the lands in Oklahoma
between OKC and the Texas Panhandle which led to the US Supreme Court
case Lone Wolf V. Hitchcock in 1903, the illegal flooding of the Cornplanter
Seneca Tract in 1963 to create the Kinzua Dam in Pennsylvania, the jailing
of Cherokees and Creeks who wouldn't go along with the allotment of their
tribal lands who were denied their tribal monies until they signed away their
tribal lands when Oklahoma was created. For any blindly patriotic Christian
Americans who think this country has done no wrong I and many others
will gladly remind and educate that this road project is just another example
of American hypocracy and I hope that the descendants will speak when they
are exposed to the sun again by this construction. I read a year or so ago about
a tribal chairman who told the EPA over and over that a proposed solar panel farm
was disturb his tribe's burial sites on the California/Arizona border. The construction
hit many graves. The ancestors spoke and the project was stopped. When do sensible
people stop and show respect?
well spoken. I think some people would still like to continue the genocide of all Native Peoples.
2 lane or 4?? How will it look connected to K-10??? How about some pictures of the proposed plan??? If this project is going to cost 190 million can't we at least get a dang picture of what the finished product will look like..............
It's going to look like the other part does a two lane county hick road.
4 lanes baby!!! Widen that sucker out and eat up that bug infested waste land. Bring in the dozers, the dirt and let's get this thing built. Thanks for the price hike on the road tree huggers.
Why don't you just take yourself to LA if you hate nature so much. They've done a wonderful job out there of eliminating all nature and have nothing but concrete from Dana Point to Santa Barbara. There are a lot of CA transplants out here that left the concrete hell to have what you call a bug infested waste land. You don't know how wonderful green spaces are until they're gone, but you appear to be of the same mindset of the *sshats we left behind in LA.
Build it, and we will drive! And spend money at Menards and all the new and old stores that will be much easier to get to and from.
gotta love historical ignorance.....brought to you by the American educational system.
I hope it's going to be 4 lanes. It's too bad that the western portion of the bypass is only 2 lanes.
Isn't the historical ignorance here the fact that everyone keeps arguing it was burial ground/spiritual center, when it was simply a floodplain that had a drain tile installed, and then became a wetland when the drain tile was removed?
This is a good deal...larger wetland and a road.
You are very ingnorant about Haskell and the lands around it.
As a child my father used to put up hay on the "wetlands" and the road that gives access to the wetlands at about 35th Street went through from Haskell to Iowa street. It is about time this is getting done since it was voted on and approved in the 80's by the TAXPAYERS.
Any word on whether any tribal representatives are going to monitor the excavation within the Haskell Agricultural Farm Property, as stated in the final MOA?
I can only pray that when the bypass is connected to our major intersections, that they wait until the KU students get back in town. This pleases me greatly! - like how the city decided to put in new sidewalks on busy 23rd Street the week of, and the asphalt patching on Kasold the week of, and let's not forget 2 weeks before the students return they tear out part of Wakarusa then left for extended holiday, and the incredibly slow progress all over town especially the giant ditch called Iowa Street. 15th got done last minute after an extra long summer break it appears. I smile every time I maneuver my lead guzzling '69 Caddie in slow motion through those cones.
In 1971 the State Highway Commission recommended a bypass for Lawrence that would be built south of the Wakarusa River with zero impact on the wetlands. Staying with this decision the bypass would have been completed years ago.
Also in 1971 the Bureau of Indian Affairs granted Douglas County a right of way for 31st street. Haskell received no money for granting a 24 acre easement for the new road.
In 1985 the Chamber of Commerce "Transportation Committee", county commissioners and developers allegedly met in secret to discuss a trafficway. The county commission later proposed a southern trafficway through the wetlands.
Why would anyone in their right mind suggest a road through an environmentally sensitive area in Lawrence,Kansas? Knowing this plan would surely meet resistance?
My prediction where this trafficway meets K-10 will become exactly like where K-10 and 435 come together. A rush hour traffic jam only with tons of 18 wheelers tailgating. Because local
developers have plans for lots and lots of houses all along the way.
A rule of thumb is new roads bring more vehicles = rush hour still a bitch. All for $200,000,000
tax dollars. Cars,drivers and developers are extremely high tax dollar budget items.
Why do developers believe it is the taxpayers responsibility to make their profit making ventures a success? Why do so many taxpayers believe that as well?
Elected officials and local profiteers are draining OUR pocketbooks and raising OUR taxes. We've subsidized local profiteers at such a basic level for so long, that many people believe Lawrence will die if we don't. This is false-what we think of as a level playing field is tilted steeply in favor of local profiteers driving development.
City hall, elected officials and local profiteers are draining OUR pocketbooks and raising OUR taxes..... absolutely.
Those in the best position to distinguish between lazy, shiftless bums who don't want to work, (and therefore, should not be receiving government services) and the mentally ill or veterans with PTSD, (who should be getting help from the government), choose not to make that distinction. They have a specific interest in not making that distinction. Their jobs depend upon it. If those in the best position to make the distinction choose not to, it's hard to fault the lay public for also not making that distinction.
Elected officials and local profiteers are draining OUR pocketbooks and raising OUR taxes.
Merrill - as Americans, we are too lazy to stand up and fight our government - our politicians use their time in office to only further their and their children's futures and in some cases, arranged marriages - it is disgusting - but hey, we're Americans and too civilized to stand up and speak, oops, I'm sorry, we no longer have freedom of speech, and none of our elected officials will speak to us anyway - its a sad situation - well back to my couch to watch stupid reality shows and possibly play video games - oh yeah, and if you do try to confront a politician, you get arrested - welcome to America!!!
All the bickering and threat of more protests aren't going to stop this from being built, so let's just get it done before costs keep going up and move on.
I hope the give the contract to someone who will charge appropriate tolls to recoup the cost of building the road. I figure $1/car, $4/semi should be sufficient. It would be a real waste if it were left free.
And I will bet if they made it a toll road, all these idoits that want it built will whine and then not use it. They could have been using I-70 to get to KC all these years, but are too cheap to pay.
And there again sourpuss...... if your types of people would have quit trying to stop the building of it years ago and let it happen.... it would have saved a TON of money. But now not so much. So..... I guess I don't feel a bit sorry for all you people that are now complaining of the cost of it.
I have a pretty good idea who will be supplying the sand for the concrete.
I hope so. We need to keep as much of this development money as close to home as possible. I hope this helps all of our local contractors and suppliers as possible.
Oh, don't you worry. Im sure the local contractors & suppliers will be well taken care of. Im all about supporting local business, as long as they do it the right way, meaning no cronyism or nepotism. If a non-local business has a lower bid, is it prudent to the taxpayers to go with the lower bid, or support the local guys, who always seem to end up with the contracts, regardless of the bid process?
Thanks to all who kept advocating for this wonderful project in the face of such adversity. Your persistence is admirable!
What a great project for our community!
YESSS!!!!! Thanks for the picture. It all makes sense now.
IF the powers that be had simply built two new bridges over the "Walkie", they would have )(been money ahead and avoided all this whoopla over the wetlands (mosquito hatcheries) they could have had the road completed by now. I don't remember them complaining when they destroyed the defunct Horseshoe Lake(it was dried up when I was a kid 60+ yrs ago) to build the new K-10. It would have been simpler to extend the current by-pass and pass just south of the river or to go just south of the river than to bring the heavy truck traffic back into town along 31st/34th sts.
Here is the map.
Has anyone done any estimates on how much money this bypass will save on wear and tear on 23rd st?
My only negative about the road is that it looks to be a 2 lane road, will it be made into a 4 lane as a finished project or will it be redesigned after all the headon collisions pile up?
I'm trying to click on the picture to see more closely where the road is, but I cannot. The image isn't in the article, just on the front page. Can a clearer and larger version of the image be uploaded please?
Are you looking at the second page of the PDF? I found that view quite helpful.
There must be a 3D image somewhere with all of the interchanges, soundwalls, etc. Can you post that too, Chad? Preferably in the print version so the community can get a sense of what we have to look forward too. Anyone else seen anything like that? Thanks.
rkatzfey, thanks for the link!
Yes, it will be four lanes! The crowd goes wild!
I can't wait to fill up my Hummer and by pass Lawrence, heck, Topeka's just around the bend. Having to drive through Lawrence on my way to my six bedroom home in West Lawrence/Topeka just isn't fair to me or my rich neighbors. That's why I'm getting me one of them bumper stickers that says this machine kills frogs and other endangered species.
I figured there waould be a wealth of entertaining blather here the minute I saw the headline on the print edition. Frankly, I am surprised that they put the story on the digital edition, this sewsrag likes to censor their news and avoid comments on selected stories.
Whoever receives the contract better be ready to have armored equipment, bullet proof cabs, bomb sniffing dogs, the whole nine yards of protection against terrorism. This could get ugly.
I was on 6th street the other evening at rush hour and it was worse than 23rd St. 6th St has a bypass - I-70, but saw tons of cars that could avoid all the traffic and don't. The same thing will happen with the bypass. The excuses - "I needed to stop at the store, I needed to get gas, blah blah blah". Traffic will stay heavy on 23rd St, the trafficway (which should have been built as originally planned south of the Waka) will just destroy the wetlands (don't get started on making new wetlands, it will be forever until anything really takes root there) and not ease traffic that much.
Anyone that's lived in larger areas and watched these same kinds of bypasses built understands and knows what a stupid waste of money this project is. It was all started because "certain" people owned land near it and could profit. There are a lot of these bypasses in cities out west that have no where the traffic that was projected.
Here is a link to the History of the Wetlands...http://www.bakeru.edu/wetlands/history Pretty interesting.
pr lies that ignore Native American history.
What part is a lie and what part is ignored.
As a tree hugging naturalist, biologist and as a kid spent many hours in the 1950's Haskell Wetlands the completion of the SLT is the best thing that has happened to the south side of Lawrence. The story about this area being sacred to Haskell is a red herring, as Haskell operated a cattle operation (1940s/50s) on what was purported to be historical gravesites, no complaint about the manure being dropped then.. I would bet that most of the nay-sayers have little experience trying to navigate the 23rd Street debacle. Environmentally speaking, just think of the wasted gasoline and time trying to traverse the 16 (I think) traffic signals from O'Connell rd. to Wakarusa rd. Many of the complainers including Merrill complain about the cost of completion of this project but do not consider the advantages this completion will hold. In fact, I see in a previous posting today Merrill groused about the increased traffic and the gridlock the new road will contribute. If I'm not mistaken it was Merrill himself in a posting several months ago professed that the SLT was a boondoggle because "nobody would use it", refusing to abandon 23 rd. Street. Many folks (no one particular in mind) in Lawrence harken back to the drug fueled, anti war existence we had in Lawrence in the 1960's-70's, hoping for a return to the supposed anti-everything, no-progress that that time championed. Balderdash!!
What the hell is that? PR flack is my guess.
Their job, no doubt, is to prevent public involvement.
The overwhelming majority of people around here voted for and want the road.
Non Indians think this is totally about being anti everything. Very far from the truth.
Your country stole lands through extermination, cultural genocide, allotment.
blood quantum, and congressional termination....not to forget having White
people run the Bureau of Indian Affairs for most of it's existence and giving
away land without Indian consultation. You live on Indian land whether it's Kaw,
Osage, Shawnee, Delaware, or Pawnee, or if you want to go back far enough
Dalton or Pomona Phase cultures as your archaeologists state. When you
didn't outright kill Indians you moved them. When the moving didn't make them
go away or become culturally white you sent missionaries to them. When this
didn't work you played divide and conquer and took their kids away for a decade
at a time to be culturally reprogrammed which what Haskell and schools like
it did in the 19th century and many children didn't survive your diseases and
brutal treatment. When this didn't work you stereotyped us and called us welfare
recipients when you were the ones who benefitted from your government taking
lands for you to live on as immigrants. Your culture creates archie bunkers
who could care less about history and their culture's culpability and simply
want people to wear headdresses at sports events which makes it soooo
easy to say shut up we won in such a clueless manner. We're not going away.
I've been here fighting this sixteen years. When a book is written on your actions
it won't be nice. It will be as ugly as all of the racism and denial I encountered
at EIS and SEIS hearings and protests. But in the spirit of cluelessness that
I've witnessed forget history we want it now and we don't care how. Just
look at the abandoned railroad right of way to the east of the wetlands.
Someone wanted the Ottawa, Sac and Fox, and Osage tribes out of the
way for that one in the 1860's. It's abandoned all the way to the Oklahoma
having read a book called Breaking Ground by Seattle Post Intelligencer Reporter
Lynda Mapes I read about how a spit of land extending into the water was originally
a Klallam fishing area and community for a 1500 year period. In 1920 in a land
theft era for many Washington state tribes the spit of land and tidal flats were built
upon many times over with seaside warehouses to the point where the land
looked nothing like it did in the Klallam times of pre contact. By the late 1990's
and early 2000's the Washington State Department of Transportation wanted to
build a pontoon launching station on this site. The pontoons were used to support
bridges since the waters were too deep for bridge pilings there. The local and state
authorities there did little consultation with the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe even
though bones and artifacts were found routinely in and around the Port Angeles area
that I read about. An archaeologist with a half functioning auger did a findings report
and stating nothing of importance was in the area and the construction could
proceed. The project people agreed with her (sounds familiar?). By the time
this project was abandoned over 350 sets of remains and hundreds if not
thousands of artifacts were uncovered in an area that looked like an abandoned
waterside warehouse complex to the naked eye. This project was abandoned
$69 million in and was not finished. This Klallam tribe is still fighting with the local municipalities over the $6 million in damages and lands awarded to them for
repatriation of the ancestors that were retrieved in buckets in a warehouse
a couple of years after this debacle. Are you really in this much hurry to get
knee deep in stink? maybe the construction companies who take the bid won't enjoy being
protested at their businesses constantly. Just saying.
in response to Mr. Divilbiss's question about what part is pr nonsense I'll
respond to that. What isn't mentioned in this Baker article? the fact that there's
no mention whatsoever of the United Methodist involvement in the destabilizing
of the Shawnee and Wyandotte tribes that inhabited this area playing factions
of each tribe against each other to gain access to Shawnee lands following the
Kansas Nebraska Act of 1854. All of the Christian denominations did the dirty
work of the US Government in Kansas by meddling in tribal affairs and finding
the tribal sellouts that were pliable with bribery and coercion to cede lands for
White settlement in this area. If this isn't relevant to this discussion why was there
a reconciliation ceremony on the Baker campus five or so years ago that was attended
by Kansas Wyandotte and Eastern Shawnee delegates where a tree of reconciliation
was planted on the Baker campus by the late Baker instructor Brenda Day that I attended?
who has the guilty conscience and why? Baker University and the wetlands set upon
Shawnee lands. The Shawnee had 1.8 million acres of land from 1825 and 1831 treaties.
Currently maybe 200 acres is left of this large swath of land due to White greed in tracts
between De Soto and Shawnee on 83rd street and near K-7 and Shawnee Mission
Parkway. Baker University is a United Methodist College. How does infringing on
indigenous religious beliefs and destroying a place of historical indigenous suffering
and death reflect on a college that seems miles away from the conscientiousness
and respect of others that my father learned at Baker in the 1960's before he became
a United Methodist Minister for four decades. It sounds as if you all would be okay
building a road through the Gettysburg battlefield or any Nazi concentration camp
if it satisfied your appetite for development and paving. When there is a specific
law, Title 25, Chapter 7, Section 293a, of the Federal Indian School Surplus Lands
Act of 1962 (public laws 47 and 87 combined) that limited land transfers to 50 acres
at a time of this particular type of land and 572.68 acres of land is transferred through
HEW instead what kind of bribery and coercion took place to circumvent the land transfer
law? As a person whose studied this stuff for almost two decades now bribery and
coercion are part and parcel of the taking of lands in Indian Country. Andrew Jackson
used the implied threat of genocide and no compensation to force most of my Choctaw
people from Mississippi in the 1830's.
The US Government also told the Ottawa Tribe in Oklahoma as they were being congressionally terminated from federal recognition by HR 108 in 1955 that
they wouldn't get their Indian Claims Commission moneys from the lands
the Baptist Church stole from them in the 1860's for Ottawa University
unless they accepted congressional termination of their federal recognition.
This termination act meant the end of their BIA services until they were restored
to federal recognition in 1978 along with the Peoria, Wyandotte, and Modoc Tribes
in Oklahoma. It also meant the federal government had no obligation to pay them
the ICC money once terminated. The US Government that supposedly protects
Indian interests tried to get themselves off the hook for the ICC Ottawa monies and
obviously didn't care what the Indians at Haskell thought when the allowed
Baker University and Ivan Boyd to circumvent the law mentioned above in the land
transfer. You know the BIA has been sued for not upholding treaty responsibility
with tribes right? The Quapaw Tribe of Oklahoma and the US Government are in
impasse now trying to settle a case the tribe won against the US Government
for not handling it's land trust responsibilities with the Quapaw Tribe who
have lands in and near the Picher Superfund EPA site. This settlement
worth a couple of hundred million dollars the last time I read. The BIA also
neglected it's treaty trust responsibilities with the transfer of the wetlands area
construction or not. This is by no means over. Besides how accurate is the
Baker wetlands blurb when it doesn't even acknowledge the Oregon trails signs
on the west end of the wetlands that are about to be destroyed?
If some white person or organization owned this land, that road would have been built a long time ago. How long do we have to pay for the things our ancestors did? I'm not asking that we forget it ever happened, but you need to get past it. I will attend the ribbon cutting, when this road is completed.
some white person does own the land. some people wonder how long they will have to pay for the things like the construction of an unnecessary road. the SLT is a bad project and should be abandoned. Kansas doesn't have the money for this road right now!
I'm a grown preacher's kid. This battle isn't really about me. It's about the legacy
of federal Indian Boarding Schools and what they did to destroy Indian culture
along with Genocide, Christianity, land allotment, and the US Government
policy of banning tribal languages and religious practices after 1886. Tribal Holy
Men put into jail by Indian Agents and local authorities and their families starved
into abandoning their cultures for fear of Sun Dances, Ghost Dances, Potlatches,
and Stomp Dances all viewed as pagan and barbaric by the Methodist authorities
who ran Haskell back then. Know what your culture did and know why you're opposed.
Know that this road project is causing a wound that no reconciliation can fix because
it my experience of going to reconciliation ceremonies an apology is all fine and
good but what was done was done. Baker planted a tree for those Shawnee and
Wyandotte representatives whom I attended the reconciliation ceremony with.
The Kansas Wyandotte still don't have federal recognition and the greedy people
here opposed the former Sunflower Ammo Depot lands being transferred
back to the Shawnee people who lived in this area from 1825 to 1869
a decade ago. A guilty conscience never returns land or stops an offensive
and destructive road project. The apology never appears until the act of
greed has been accomplished if at all. Good luck.
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