June 20, 2013 |
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And the jobs? Where are the jobs? Oh...this is, by the way, a job killing bill.
This Catholic Organization has short term memory and should think about cleaning up their own back yard and let All Stars alone.....seems to me...All Stars has less abuse and incidents, then in their owe darn Priesthood Organization !! This crap just burns my britches.
Legalize it and tax it...said the pot head.
As much as I find such places gross, this is just stupid.
Let the girls dance and the pervs watch, as long as no one gets hurt and everyone is a consenting adult, who cares?
The take away message is an AR-15 with a 100 Round drum is okay, but a lap dance is forbidden.
What about our personal freedom? Hypocrites.
Looking at a naked person makes you a perv? My, aren't your hands squeaky-clean.
Exactly! They explain away the obvious libertarian hypocrisy by calling it neo-libertarian.
The funny thing is they also made happy hour legal again.
What the hell does this have to do with libertarianism?
A libertarian would only want to ensure that all involved were consenting adults, after that, what they do is their own business.
Look up neo-libertarian (Fiscal libertarian but socially conservative). It is what Newt calls himself. Most of the people calling themselves libertarians, are only fiscal libertarians. You don't see the hypocrisy in saying you are fiscally libertarian yet socially conservative?
Neolibertarians are more hawkish than libertarians, that is the difference. Both regard personal freedom very highly and would not restrict what consenting adults do if the land owner allows it. I don't think any political group would be less inclined to even consider such laws than libertarians, be them paleo or neo.
Your guess is wrong. Your dog won't hunt.
I'm a libertarian. If the owner desires, the girls should be fully nude, contact should be allowed, alcohol should be served and if a dancer wants to do some additional work after hours, including prostitution, then he or she should be able to do it legally. Also, if the owner wants a happy hour, a ladies night, a dollar drink night, wet T shirt contests or to allow smokers, then those should be perfectly legal.
Also, AR15s with 100 round magazines are fine.
Fill us in on the libertarian hypocrisy because I don't see any.
Nope, nothing hypocritical about this state legislature wanting shut down free enterprise.
Most libertarian are not real libertarians because their personal politics and their personal ideology do not square with one another.
Tell me what is the difference between a social libertarian and someone who calls themselves socially liberal? It is the same thing, which is why the teapubs are such ridiculous Hippocrates.
"Tell me what is the difference between a social libertarian and someone who calls themselves socially liberal?"
A social libertarian wouldn't support a smoking ban on private property. A social liberal probably would. Same with AR15s with 100 round magazines, drugs, polygamy, third-trimester abortions and prostitution.
A social liberal would support a ban on, drugs, polygamy, third-trimester abortions and prostitution? I will give you the 100 rounds, but come on.
I think people support what they want and then try to square it with a chosen camp. At the end of the day it is all about the person. Smoking ban is a great example, so is legalization. Regardless of political stripes, if you are a smoker you want smoke in restaurants, if your a pot head you want it legal.
"I think people support what they want and then try to square it with a chosen camp."
That's pretty cynical. I don't think I fit into that category. I have no gun (except a BB gun), nor do I want one bad enough to buy one, but I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd. I'm not gay, but I support full equality for those that are. I'm a guy, but support complete equality among the genders. I'm beige but I am no different than anyone because of that. I only want one wife, but I think a marriage should consist of the number of men and women that are included in the vows with the ability to amend those vows. I'm a nihilist, but I fully support the constitutional rights of fred phelps and his cult. I'm a science fan (though only pop science), but I remain unconvinced about anthropogenic global warming.
Having those positions makes me no friends because they don't follow our dominant party lines. But still I stick by them regardless.
I try to be fair and support freedom. You seem too cynical.
Cynical maybe, if you stick to a prescription even when it is personally inconvenient, I commend you. Can you really say, after all we have seen, that there was no cynical truth to what I wrote?
Actually, it isn't so cynical, you are right. We choose teams, we believe what the team say's in general. I changed to libertarian somewhere along the way because they made sense. I embraced the balance of libertarian thought for the same reason. it made sense.
I want to use my "get out of jail" card.
As far as Brownback and the legislature is concerned, I think there is only one political Ideology and that is crony capitalism. Libertarian notions are only used as cover.
You keep repeating yourself about libertarian hypocrisy, but you are missing the whole point. None of the people you are talking about are Libertarians. I don’t think there is a single person in the Kansas Legislature that is a Libertarian, and Brownback certainly is not.
It is no different that the “liberals” who want to control people’s personal freedoms or the “conservatives “ who spend money like drunken sailors.
So,mound this affect TheFlamingo? Nikki should interview Wes!
Found on Twitter
@LJWorld #Brownbackistan. Freedom of The Guv's religion and nobody else's. Kill jobs and close businesses. @govsambrownback @billmaher
As employees. So rent out space and have them be called "independent contractors". Bam! They aren't "employees" anymore.
At least at most clubs, the dancers are, in fact, independent contractors. The girls pay to dance there which is called "tip-out". There is a certain amount that the girls have to pay from their tips (their sole source of revenue). If a girl doesn't get significantly more than the tip-out, she is not going to stay very long.
Their rally cry is smaller, less intrusive government, government is the problem. When the government leaves people alone, things get better and we prosper. Oh wait…..what they mean is; a smaller government unless you want to take your home brew to a friend’s house, go to a topless bar, buy medical insurance with abortion coverage included, have your union dues auto drafted from your paycheck, etc., etc. Don’t even start with the abortion issue, it’s a Constitutional Right and they are trying their best to deny this right to the citizens of Kansas. Funny how they try to squash certain Constitutional Rights when they don’t fit their far Right-Wing dogma. Calling them hypocrites is a nice to put it.
Wow! Ding, ding, ding: winner....
No government, unless it is in your womb, pants or occupying a foreign land!
Does not make a very good campaign slogan, I suppose.
These people might have quit having sex so they would prefer if all others on the planet would quit having sex.
The question is who wants to be as frustrated and angry as these folks?
"“I am concerned with the negative secondary effects that these establishments create within communities, especially in small communities,” Brunk said.
The committee heard testimony from supporters of the bill Thursday, including Phillip Crosby, the state director of the American Family Association, a church affiliated non-profit organization.
“Sexually oriented businesses are not engines of prosperity, but a community liability,” Crosby said. “The effects are increased crime, increased STDs, property devaluation, prostitution and human and drug trafficking. Communities are intimidated by the sex industry, and Kansas communities have no restrictions in place.”
Is any of this true? Why are Brunk and Crosby hanging out at these houses of ill repute? How else could they obtain this information?
Nikki Wentling are these people lying?
None of it is true. It is called propaganda and conflation. There have been no cases in KS (or any surrounding states) establishing any link between strip clubs and prostitution or human trafficking....which are not the same. And no subject is more riff with hysterical claims than the human trafficking issue. Nor has there been a documented case of STD transmission at a strip club.
MO cited crime when they passed the law. Since the law enacted, KCMO has seen an unprecedented crime wave. Where are the results? And where are the moral liars who told this lie now? Probably in court themsleves under charges of child molestation.
All these claims are just willfully accepted lies thown out in hysterics. LIke I have always said....the two major motivators for making policy in this country are prejudice and hysterics. And by prejudice, I dont mean black and white, I mean the first dictionary definition which is "willfully coming to conclusions without all the information."
Merrill, I want to tell you that there are those who have very low sex drives, who simply have no interest in the whole area. They are not frustrated and angry. My thing is that just because I don't bowl, it doesn't mean I am frustrated and angry, it doesn't mean I want to prohibit others from bowling.
I don't care who goes to the "gentlemen's clubs or what they do there. Let us not strive for understanding here because that may be impossible with a subject such as this.
If I don't go to those places and I am happy, that is fine, if you do want to go to those places and you are happy, that is fine too.
Bring on the Male Strippers.....we need some equality in this town.....;P
Wow, I actually agree with merrill on something.
But "who wants to be as frustrated and angry as these folks?", merrill look in the mirror...
As far as “KS valves”, that is the worst argument I have heard yet. Here are the things wrong with the “KS values” argument.
• First of all, most if not all, of these establishments in KS are private clubs. So the imposition of "KS values" is over the limit right off the bat. If you vote in favor of this, you might as well establish an official State religion and force all other religions to comply based on the same "KS Values" argument...and the lack of recognition of private clubs, meetings or congregations. The justification of "KS values" might as well be said as "We want a Christian based theocracy".
• Secondly, it is the "more freedom, small govt" tea party republicans who are pushing it. I am not sure where they want small govt, but it isn't in your private lives. And minding your own business is also a KS value.
• MO argued that strip clubs contributed to crime and human trafficking. Well, there have been no cases in KS or MO establishing any link between strip clubs and prostitution or human trafficking….which incidentally are NOT the same. However, since MO passed their law, dozens of clubs have closed and KCMO has seen an unprecedented crime wave, so I guess they cannot use the crime justification anymore.
• Governor Brownback wants to turn KS into a State like Texas where there is no state income tax making it attractive to business. Well, Texas practically invented the strip club and the lap dance. It is part of their business culture. Strip clubs are all over the place in Texas and advertised on billboards next to the freeways. You can’t have it both ways. You can want a free state like Texas and Nevada and then impose all this moral stuff too.
• I have lived in KS all my life and minding your own business is also a KS value. If these people don’t like the clubs….then they don’t have to go. If a woman doesn’t want to work there…..then don’t. If you do and regret it later, well that is called growing up and taking responsibility for your decisions. No one is forcing anymore to work there.
Why is a representative of a hate groups (American Family Association) being asked for an opinion in a state hearing? (Hint: He probably wrote the bill.) And why is the LJW playing along? A woman-hating pervert is the last person who would qualify as an expert witness in a discussion regarding strip clubs.
I'm guessing the proponents of this bill, in a week's time, typically watch many evening TV dramas where men and women get murdered in the most gruesome and terrifying ways imaginable...and they don't think a thing about it. Censor TV violence? No way. Ban assault rifles and 30-round clips? Oh, Lord no!
But God forbid if some of their fellow citizens want to drink a beer while watching a beautiful dancer with shapely breasts, and then just go on home. Gotta outlaw that!
"The state would like to enter 'Taken' into evidence, calling Liam Neeson as an expert witness."
Are you suggesting that strippers have a very specific set of skills?
They are skillful at making you the center of their universe as long as you are giving them money. That's really hard to do.
"Kim Murphee, a spokeswoman for the Lawrence Police Department, said law enforcement went to Allstars 17 times in 2012. There was one call regarding harassment, one for battery and one for a medical emergency."
How does that compare with other businesses or bars?
Low compared to any bar students frequent.
I live in N. Lawrence and have never seen any issues at All Stars. I like that guys come from all over Lawrence and spend their money on my side of town (many use the gas stations nearby, bringing revenue to these businesses). I personally don't understand the thrill of paying to just get turned on, but what ever floats these guys boats shouldn't be deemed illegal. No one is getting hurt, so who cares. If it weren't for the sign out front, you'd never know it was a strip club. What ever happened to capitolism and free enterpise? I thought republicans said regulation kills business. Why do they want to kill business in this state?
All you idiots that voted for these republicans, I hope you enjoy what they're doing to this state. No more boobies for you!!!! Hopefully you'll start to see that republicans are nothing but hyprocrits!
You can whine about Republicans all you want, but I'll bet you there are plenty on both sides of the asile that see strip clubs as explotation of women. Frankly, I don't go to these places and I don't care if you do. What is going on here is folks that go to these places need a place to go, they are concentrated in one place, everyone knows they are there and there is no reason to scatter them. If this is what they want to do, they can do it in that environment and we are better off just leaving them alone vs taking a chance on some of them attacking our women on the street for their jollies.
Prove it. Name just a few of the Democrats in support of this particular measure. You cannot, because for the most part they understand the disconnect between legislating morality and good government.
On the more general point, there are "pro-woman" groups on the left that do consider occupations in the sex industry to be exploitative of women.
Amazing for me to admit, but I can't say that "Can't" doesn't make sense sometimes.
Once again right-wing nanny staters show they are incapable of anything but legislating their morality upon all. Small government, my foot. And didn't Pat Roberts just make a fool of himself by being one of the lone votes against the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act (78-22), with the brilliant reasoning that courts are just too full as is?
Next on plate, forced church attendence for those in "dark spiritual areas".
Between time-wasters like this latest attack against consenting adults and the other crap they're pulling, it's no wonder that an increasing number of Kansans ~ of both parties ~ are becoming disgusted with the entire state house. Keep your bibles at home and quit goofing off on our dollar.
I hope that all of these pastors don't go back to their churches ........and clean house .
It Would be dangerous, If they took their phony misuses of the Old Testament seriously, because they might go back to their churches and execute half of their own members in the parking lot, for the obvious chronic crimes of adultery !!!!!
But that would be too much work, as they would have to stone them to death, as no bullets were used in the Old Testament !
Got to be Biblical,.....you know !
What church doesn't have it's share of 2nd and 3rd timer adulterous marriages, ........oh,........excuse us......dues paying, ......faithful believer members..... in good standing........as long as they can pay to be fleeced, by a bunch of red neck charlatans, who make their hypocritical livings off of the gullible and leaching onto their lives .
Cheating spouses are probably also a major source of spreading VD around their churches .
But I am not for outlawing their churches, just because some of their members cheat on their spouses or spread VD.
Welcome to the real world, where people with brains actually look back at you hypocritical people,...... and note the obvious !
Sorry, you don't have a license to fool, all of the people, all of the time !
I believe in a God or a Supreme being,.... but it's not some vengeful little control freak god that has nothing greater to do with it's time, than to obsess over the non violent behaviors of humans in this world .
But I guess that you hypocrites can make a god, in any image that you want, by twisting up any words, that you can twist .
If a picture is worth a thousand words.......then what are a thousand words worth ?.......and what differs a "graven image" of a god......from one made with words on a keyboard..... or from a pulpit ?
Apparently, what we can't fix, we must govern out of existence.
American Family Association? The group that just recently claimed that gays being buried in Arlington Cemetery would compromise national security?
Maybe some gay strips clubs giving male lap dances would give all these GOP moralists something to do
This is a War on Heterosexual Sex. They wouldn't dare attack gays. They aren't easy targets.
It's like a starving man going in to McDonalds and paying to look at the food. But, hey, less laws not more.....Pay away gentlemen.
With many serious issues facing the State of Kansas, I haven't a clue why these folks are wasting time on this issue.
This is stupid.. I can't believe we pay these morons to come up with ideas like this.. Here we have two illegitimate wars occuring, the US enconomy is in the toilet, we're closing schools and laying teachers off, people are starving, homless people who can't find work, people that can't afford to get decent health care and we have a bunch of morons worried sick that someone might actually find the time to have a good time. What consenting adults do is there business. Long as no one is drunk driving or getting hurt whats the big deal... I bet the dorms and frat houses at KU generate more STDs than any strip club.
All of the gains of the last 30 years are being reversed by this governor and his Christian right crusaders. If this keeps up, we can probably expect all the liquor laws to be repealed, too.
The only reason he hasn't made any moves on restricting liquor sales is because the taxes on it are a huge source of revenue for the State.
This is dumb, but not suprising.
Concerned Women for America
Founded by Beverly LaHaye, wife of Religious Right activist Tim LaHaye, as a counter to the progressive National Organization of Women, Concerned Women for America (CWA) describes itself as "the nation's largest public policy women's organization." CWA opposes gay rights, comprehensive sex education, drug and alcohol education, and feminism, while advocating what it calls "pro-life" and "pro-family" values.
There are single mothers, college girls paying tuition, etc. who also work at clubs as a legitimate way of making money. They are not out prostituting which is illegal and men aren't there to rape women, just get away from stress for a few hours without gambling (which is legal) or getting drunk then driving home (which is also illegal).
Someone in your right mind with solid evidence show me how trafficking and clubs are truly related. You can't just make up things to fit your morals and shove them down others' throats. I'd much rather spend my money at a club than a bar (which I do and have been faithful and happily married to my wonderful lifelong partner of 30 years and counting).
I know three women who have worked at clubs for that very reason and were by no stretch of the imagination prostitutes. One is now an accountant.
You'd be surprised at how many women you may know who have done it.
More smaller government, except when they say so. Was nudity legal in the bible?
Are we going back to the 1900's, because this sounds like it.
1500 is their ultimate goal. Need to rewind the Renaissance. Science is a myth, you know.
Yet another example of some group attempting to add more cereal filler to the spicy Kielbasa of life.
Yes! I also love how these groups, also tend to gravitate towards such cauldrons of spicy Kielbasa as ours, when they want to unwind.
Seems to me some of these moral crusaders forgot the words of the man from Gallilee: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Guess we have many perfect folks leading us to the promised land in the state. Wonder I don't feel worthy of their control over my life?
Happy hour OK again.
Legal happy hour lap dance Not OK (some things should not be profited from).
Health care for all Not OK (what's wrong with a little profit over caring for people?)
Guns always OK, hopefully in churches, schools and hospitals too.
Gay not OK (we won't hunt you, but don't expect us to protect you).
Legal abortion suspended, Not OK.
Wind turbines ruin the land scape, Not OK.
Fracking OK (what you can't see can't hurt ya, unless its flammable).
Federal government money for the poor to get medical care Not OK (What would Jesus say?)
Federal government money for low nutrition crops OK (Jesus did not say feed them well).
Lower state taxes OK.
Starve the schools OK.
Get rid of the interest deduction OK (Wait you have how much mortgage debt?)
Wonder if Jim baker and the church secretary, Jimmy Swagert and the motel hooker or Reverend Ted with his male escort and drugs, are part of this group ?
To those of you who are mindless......obey, obey, obey !!!!!!!
How about a law prohibiting religious non profits from lobbying or influencing the State Legislature, using tax deductible contributions, or the non profit charities name, to fund their efforts ?
A little Separation of Church & State,..... Please !
How about another Law that says that any hypocrites collecting donations in Kansas ( even out of staters ) must give back all of the $ loot, if they get caught with their moral pants down ? No bathroom foot taping or hookers allowed ! No half million dollar homes, fancy cars or topped out vacations for them, at the non profits expense !
Just what we need ! Big government and shady religious panderers, getting involved with our private personal lives, true governments power !
If that isn't the makings of a fiasco and the very thing that the right wing promised not to do.....not to get government into your lives !......but hypocrites generally lie about allot of things !
What is so different about these ?
My take is that anybody that calls themselves the "Americans For Something", is probably some sort of "cult group", that must be trying to send a message... to....foreign student at KU ? Else wise, ....why would they bother to call themselves "Americans", since all true Kansas Residents are "Americans", .....for the most part ?
Does that imply that some folks are "not as American", as other folks are ?...... Maybe, Most Probably ?!
What if they just changed their names to "We Are Not Russians, Chinese or Cubans... For Something" ? Do you think that people would buy into that name,... or any of their b.s. better ?
Guess who has a high consumption rate? Red States are high porn consumers and many preachers are heavy users.
Look, between this and gay rights restrictions, this is simply an attempt to make the Kansas government more efficient. Just think about how half of our poor legislatures gets cold sweats and drift off, thinking about running down to the nearest club and getting some fine dancing from cute honeys, and that's not even the time wasted when they succumb to their sinful brains and actually GO.
The other half, well, they just get so many shivers thinking of those burly men with their rough hands.
With all of this, how can you expect your properly repressed, moral representative to get any actual work done on job incentives, or infrastructure improvements, or any of those other vital things? None of those can happen until anything that could draw the lawmakers eye and mind into impurity are properly dealt with. They are, after all, nothing but sinful humans. Sinful, dirty dirty humans.
The so-called Dancers are someone's sister, daughter or wife. How would you like to go to work some day and when asked "how's the family?"reply "Oh my daughter just landed a new job at Club XXX." Think about all the creeps leering at her and treating her like a common streetwalker. I suspect the clubs get less attention from the police because of the bouncers who enforce the cell phone ban and beat up the customers who get out of line. They police their own turf. I once saw a guy thrown out of a strip club in Topeka . I don't know what he did or why he was "escorted" out, but they couldn't let it go at that . Three or four bouncers had to beat the guy up after they got him outside. And I haven't even started on the drugs, shady bookkeeping and other crimes that go on at those places. If the "Dancers" ever do get out of the business, do you think they list that on their resume?
I can tell you from experience that the no cell phone ban is to prevent prevs from posting pictures online and ruining the lives of the dancers. As for the group of bouncers beating customers up, that usually happens because the customer was bold enough to say a racist slur or hit a dancer. And drug use is NOT tolerated at well established clubs. Why the hell would the owner want to derail his gravy train because of some loser druggies?
There may be creeps leering at some dancer but I will bet you that the dancers are leering back at them, trying to figure out who's pockets have the most to empty.... and how fast they can empty them !
All in all, strip clubs are an event for lizard brains......almost as fun as the one that goes on in The State House in Topeka.........or the one that occurs, from the hypocritical pulpits, of most of the right wing churches,......with their pocket picking, power grabing ministers & their politically patronized bedfellows .
It was the former head of The Republican National Committee , a Mr. Michael Steel, who was caught in 2011, spending $1,900 of the RNCs donated funds, on what must have been a fact finding (?) mission to a Bondage Strip Club !
He probably just went there to get some peace so he could write a new anti porn & strip club plank for the parties upcoming convention !
Same old happy stuff from politicians !
The kansas legislature are communist or at least socialist. They want big government and they want big government as far down our throats as they can stuff it.
More like ruber stamped puppets.....nodding "Yea" or "Nay" with the favorite flavor of the Month!!
My comments have nothing to do with party affiliation. While the clubs do control a lot of what goes on, they can't control everything. Drug users and dealers Do hang out at these clubs and the dancers are often their main customers. The cell phone ban also keeps the customers from making a phone call. I understand the camera concerns. (You never know who they may be calling) My main point is that if these are such wonderful employment opportunities and not at all immoral, then why don't the fathers, brothers and husbands of the dancers take pride in the fact that they do dance nude in front of strangers for money? Sort of like "Hey Joe, why don't we go over to Club XXX and watch my (daughter,sister,wife) dance naked after work?" See the point?
"Hey, Joe. Let's go watch my son dig trenches or sit in a call center selling aluminum siding after work."
You seem to be opposed to the clubs yet seem to have a lot of knowledge as to what goes on there.
After 18 Joe......your daughter, sister or maybe even your wife...you have nothing to say about it........Freedom of choice and legal....Better start taking the wife out more Joe ....and hope she isn't practicing her dancing.....by your comments........she Could be very bored with you...........maybe Joe.........you should starting dancing.......Hope you see my point ..... ;-)
There is federal law allowing communities to regulate these clubs and it has withstood US Supreme court challenges. The real question everyone needs to be asking, "Do you want an out of state radical Evangelical ran and funded Political Action Committee coming in to your state and trying to force, amendments to the Kansas state Constitution, down your throat ?"
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