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What a bunch of malarkey. I was at the debate and was able to observe these "disrupters" for the entire thing. While one did hiss "liar" at one point towards the end, for the most part they were using the ASL sign for applause since most debates frown upon clapping or making noise. It was nothing more than a small show of approval whenever Tobias said something that group approved of. Maybe I'm biased because I agree with them. Sue me. Jenkins said a lot of things that would upset staunch liberals. I was surprised something didn't happen earlier in the debate. Outbursts will happen when a person is truly upset by what is said. That being said, I can't believe someone would make a decision based on a small group not even wearing Schlingensiepen gear. Lynn Jenkins had tons of supporters decked out in her shirts and pins. She didn't need more acknowledgment. Tobias deserved to know that his supporters were present. The outburst caused a minuscule ripple in the debate, but the moderators quickly moved on. Props to them for keeping calm and moving things along. The disrupters had their one moment and then kept quiet for the rest of it. They were then accosted by Jenkins supporters. Leave the poor elderly ladies alone.
Look at how the media portrayed the peaceful Tea party protests versus the OWS riots? Nuff said on opinions on what's considered "misbehaving".
debates by candidates often offer more info about style as opposed to content. Candidates can and do, say any old thing and if today is any example, say completely conflicting things every few hours , sometimes even in the same venue. So I'm less interested sometimes in WHAT they are saying than in their ability to think on their feet, be reflective, be inclusive and generous, able to follow the rules of the format, NOT BE A BULLY AND INTERRUPT THE OPPONENT(S) AND MODERATOR, restrain anger, be gracious, genuine and civil, be humorous and even self-deprecating instead of egotistical and trying to get off as many zingers as possible.So the reality is that Rachael can probably learn more by looking at Jenkin's record, and follow her $$$ trail than listening to her tea party talking points. I am offended by people who are rude in all kinds of public venues every day and I assume most people are; this letter generated a lot of heat b/c it occurred in a political context and allowed lots of folks to try to score points by politicizing incivility. Believe me, it comes in all stripes and varieties. What does surprise me is that we allow them to get away with it by abdicating our power, like ineffectual parents who want to be their kids' friend instead of doing the tough job of parenting. In the Presidential debate, I was shocked that Lehrer was completely steamrolled and inefffective against Romney's bullying, which Romney has done over and over in debates this year so he looks like a tough guy, pandering to the some simpletons who think that might makes right...if you holler a lie loud enuf and long enuf, a majority of simpletons will believe it's true.
Exactly what direct subsidy do we give the oil companies? They get tax breaks just like green energy companies. Tax breaks originate from Congress. Mr. Romney has never been there but Mr. Obama has.
Anotheer red fish from the IMHO paid employee of the DNC
IMHO neitheer should get tax breaks.
these women were in front of my father who doesn't like mrs. jenkins either....
nothing like see that woman be snide towards a minister.....nice....
Interesting. Bozo do you presume that the actions of liberal supporters are not considered by voters yet you generalize the actions of some conservative supporters to condemn millions of your fellow citizens in an apparent hope that will lead to them to vote for your favorite.
IMHO, the actions of supporters, particularly if seen to be generalized, do affect how people vote. We are not electing a candidate – we are electing a party. Few of our elected officials vote consistently at odds with their party. You are a representative of the party you support!! Acting boorishly or deliberately disrespectfully gets counted and can work to your own disadvantage - however good it might feel at the moment.
On the way into work, I was cut off by someone with a Romney bumper sticker. Well, if Republicans are going to be that rude to fellow citizens in the everyday world, then I am voting for Democrats.
The idea that candidates speaking directly gives us unbiased and objective information would be funny, except that many people seem to believe it.
What we get from direct speech of candidates is whatever they happen to say, regardless of the facts.
It may be useful, but it's just one piece of information to evaluate, along with all of the others.
Rachel I was there as well and sitting in the 3rd or 4th row, so I hope you will be relieved to know that we weren't even aware that was going on behind us. I do remember hearing someone loudly whisper "liar" at one point but that was all I heard or saw. I guess next time try to sit closer to the stage?
Ms. Sublow's negative experience has been minmized by the left leaning commentors in this thread. They have recommended that she seek information online and elswhere. Is it possible to get objective, unbiased information anywhere in the media? I think not. The only way to do this is by attendance of events such as this debate where the voter hears from the candidates in person. The first Presidential debate and the polling that followed the debate bears this out. A huge swing in the polling results occurred after seeing and hearing the candidates clarify their postions. It's unfortunate that Ms. Sudlow was unable to hear them speak. The state of Kansas was the loser in this instance. Good luck Rachel, I hope you find that elusive unbiased information you seek.
I experienced the same type of behavior in one of Ms. Jenkins’s “town Hall” meetings some years ago. Worse, it was well organized and basically precluded anybody but the anointed from participating. There, too, the use of character assignation such as calling the speaker a liar was observed. Mr. Pitts has an op-ed piece on this today and what follows is my comment to that piece.
Facts do not have ideologically bias. Mr. Pitt’s article does. There is only one instance of a liberal misrepresentation (poor Hillary). All the other examples are of conservatives. Now it was Mr. Welch who argued that the books were cooked on the latest unemployment figures. He is not the conservative world. Today he presented his opinion as to what his comment was about in the WSJ.
I could observe that the 47% issue is based on fact. Annually 47% of us pay no federal income taxes regardless of the reason why or what might happen next year. There was no spontaneous demonstration in Libya caused by a poorly scripted movie but a planned attacked by a well coordinated and led group of what we today call terrorists. That is a fact despite a week of denial form the White House.
Seems to me as if we are unable to identify a fact if it does not fit our ideological beliefs. Lying is as noted a very poor way to run a campaign. I would opine that calling the other guy a liar because we do not like his presentation of a fact is just as poor a way to run a campaign. This later approach (noted in a letter elsewhere in this space) seems to be missing from Mr. Pitt’s musings.
It's true that we can find the positions of the candidates through research on the web & otherwise, but nothing represents their positions quite as well as hearing their stances live in real time from the candidates themselves. The opportunity to do so gives one a taste of their skills as communicators & how they might conduct themselves as an elected representative.
It seems as if these yahoos denied that opportunity to a few people with their boorish behavior.
First, this bothered me: "As an undecided voter, the actions of this group may help persuade me in my decision"
Really, this has to be one of the MOST asinine things I have ever read, in life. So, you could believe wholeheartedly in a candidate but if they had some rude supporters, you would vote for the other person (whom you consider to be inferior)? Wow! I like the Steelers and I know they have jagaloon fans (remember, it is the fans, not the players that you should be upset with). I also enjoy listening to Ozzy, AC/DC, The Police, The Ramones and many more and having been to thier shows, yes, you will find jagoffs in just about every crowd but why would you hate the band? Hey, did you stop believing in God after that nut shot and killed Tiller?
Second, Jan Brewer pulling that crap with a sitting President. It seems to be ok now to disrespect Obama unlike how any other President has ever been treated
Absolutely, and that's what I will have to resort to...looking it all up online (something I would have done anyway). However, the POINT of my letter was that people should grow up & be a bit more respectful when they get released into the real world.
I do understand that a few bad apples dont truly represent the politics of the candidates in question.
They're not affecting how I vote, but more how I affiliate myself with what was once my party. I wasn't able to form a concrete decision on my vote for these two simply because I wasn't allowed to hear what I needed. It's embarrassing to be grouped with disrespectful folks like this. I dont vote party line & rather pick & choose who will best support what I believe.
This is Rachael, the original writer.
they were disruptive. Many of us in our area tried repeatedly to quiet them. We didnt want to be too loud about it as no one wants to add to that mess AND the thing was televised, so it really didnt deserve a scene in the middle of their debate. I would have moved, but the place was quite full & they'd filled up all the extra chairs they had to bring out. I didnt see any security at the place, so no comment there on why they didnt step in.
I legitimately am an undecided voter (generally leaning a little more left) & it was really tough to hear either of the candidates, as these folks took it upon themselves to cheer or boo during most of the speaking. If they werent being loud, they were incredibly distracting doing little cheerleader moves in their seats. It was silly & pointless & really took away from an otherwise good debate. They were attacking and rude when I pointed out to them afterwards how poor their behavior was.
It's sad that folks need to ruin an experience for everyone else like this.
Why weren't these individuals escorted out? The Dole Institute usually does not tolerate such behavior.
Hopefully more research and thought goes into your decision-making process, but that is very sad that people would behave in that way. I don't support Jenkins because I would prefer representatives who have their own original thoughts and who I feel represent me, instead of towing the party line no matter what. I'm embarrassed that those people were so ill-mannered though at the event.
The left has been more obnoxious in this campaign season than ever before. Ask Stacy Dash what she thinks. The black woman actress tweeting in support of Romney was recently subjected to racial slurs and extremely hateful verbal assaults from the "tolerant" left.
An elderly California couple has been subjected to violent threats, vandalism and a fake Molotov cocktail because they erected a pro-Mitt Romney sign on their front yard.
OWS (previously supported by this administration) has wreaked havoc causing destruction to private property and municipalities.
There are many more examples too numberous to list here. Will Obama call either the elderly California couple or Stacy Dash with apologies as he called Sandra Fluke? Very doubtful. Will he condemn the hostile acts of the left publicly? Again doubtful since he does not want to offend his base before the election. The silence from President Civility is deafening and verifies the true empty suit of the "debate Obama". We need leadership that will heal this nation. Vote Romney/Ryan.
Constitutional_Malfeasance said: "The left quite frankly is very uncivil and need to learn some manners. Even liberal journalists can not behave themselves anymore."
Are you joking? It was a republican congressman who yelled "liar" during the State of the Union address. And conservative commentators like Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, and Coulter are some of the most uncivilized people on Earth - not out of conviction but because that's what their hate-filled conservative audiences respond to.
Since when did the word "liberal" become a negative attribute? I believe it was around the time of Bush#1, if not well before. A definition of liberal from Webster's dictionary includes "Not narrow or contracted in mind; not selfish; enlarged in spirit" I'm a liberal and proud of it!
Yet another example of the liberal definition of "tolerance" - conform or be relentlessly attacked for voicing an opposing view. Their orthodoxy is where the true bigotry lies in America.
You'll see what I mean by the replies that follow this post.
Excellent letter. Thank you Rachael.
I think the writer's point was exactly that- she was TRYING to be informed by attending the debates and was limited by obnoxious Tobias supporters who wouldn't let a single Jenkins word be heard.
So, there were lots of people there, and 3 of them were obnoxious, and happened to be supporters of the D candidate.
Making one's decision about who to vote for on that basis seems rather odd to me.
There are a lot of rude obnoxious people in this country, on all sides of the political spectrum.
Wouldn't it be better to make these sorts of decisions based on policy and substantive differences between the candidates?
Heathens, the lot of them!!!
Excessive copy/pasting is a form of heckler's veto on this award-winning website. People get tired of scrolling past drivel they've seen hundreds of times and don't read the later posts on a thread. http://www.rbs2.com/heckler.htm
A few parts of the left are hateful and rude. You don't find their equal on the right until you get to supremacist whackos and schizophrenics that think god talks to them. Being inconsiderate doesn't have a party line, but it seems the Ds are always a little more desperate and therefore given to more bad behavior.
But to today's liberal, being opposed is equated with being obnoxious.
Heckling is not an attribute that is exclusive to "liberals," "radicals," or the "left." I remember the debates from the Hutch State Fair where Roberts supporters could not have been more obnoxious if they had tried.
I think that this type of behavior is unacceptable from any political corner, and any debate should be preceded by an announcement that the expectation for the debate is that the demeanor of the audience will be civil and respectful of all views of the candidates and that individuals not respecting the rest of the audience/candidates will be warned once, then asked to leave.
Then the moderator should back up their words with actions, if necessary. There is no protection of disruptive behavior in the First Amendment.
Being disrespectful is the new tactic of the liberal mindset, the Democrats have taken a lot of the radical element of society on board.
Let's talk about republican entitlements that literally destroyed jobs,economies,retirement plans. And made owning a home a risky investment - now that is remarkable.
--- This ENTITLEMENT - Bailing out The Reagan/Bush Savings and Loan Heist aka home loan scandal sent the economy out the window costing taxpayers many many $$ trillions (Cost taxpayers $1.4 trillion), Plus millions of jobs, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance.
--- This ENTITLEMENT Bailing out the Bush/Cheney Home Loan Wall Street Bank Fraud cost consumers $ trillions, millions of jobs, loss of retirement plans and loss of medical insurance. Exactly like the Reagan/Bush home loan scam. Déjà vu can we say. Yep seems to be a pattern.
--- This ENTITLEMENT - Bush/Cheney implied many financial institutions were at risk instead of only 3? One of the biggest lies perpetrated to American citizens. Where did this money go? Why were some banks forced to take bail out money?
Is the market value of your home worth less than your mortgage? How much market value have home owners lost since 2007?
The fewer republicans the more our properties will become worth and the more likely USA jobs will be reinvigorated.
Neither WOMEN nor Republicans nor Democrats nor the Upper Middle Class/Middle class can afford the Republican/RINO Party!
Do women need more republican big government in there lives? It is on the way!
Public Education is a strong player in new Economic Growth yet republicans starve
the system of funding which starves our teachers of resources. Which starves the desired level of education = stealing from our children’s future.
Trying to kill an educational institution such as Sesame Street and PBS is reckless and
Irresponsible. Republicans are out of touch going on 32 years.
Is the market value of your home worth less than your mortgage? How much market value have home owners lost since 2007? Trillions of $$$$.
Let's talk about republican entitlements that have literally destroyed jobs,economies and retirement plans. And made owning a home a risky investment - now that is remarkable.
DC republicans have been successful at wrecking our economy big time twice in the past thirty years. Because of the pattern I am convinced it is their economic policy established under the direction of Reagan/Bush.
Bush/Cheney accomplished a remarkable achievement by destroying the world economy which of course makes it difficult for the USA to bounce back quickly. The question becomes how in the world did they sucker financial institutions worldwide into buying bundles upon bundles upon bundles of bad USA home loans worth trillions of dollars in bad debt?
What an incredible and criminally insane economic policy? I don't believe the entire world can afford the economically reckless republican party that was born in 1980.
More important than a few rowdies in the crowd are jobs,economics and public education funding.
The repub party declared the day Obama was elected their primary function would be
to make Obama a one term president.
Consequently their millions of NO votes became the disastrous campaign against women,The USA and jobs for Americans.
BRING ON EMPLOYMENT = THE GREATEST REPUBLICAN FEAR ON EARTH!!!
Repubs fear a dramatically improved quality of life for all WOULD keep them out of control for decades….. we would hope.
Keep in mind a prospering america can overcome repub fear mongering... it must.
What is the repub party afraid? Why do they ALWAYS say no?
What do Repubs fear?
--- Fear a dramatically improved quality of life for all americans
--- Fear Jobs Jobs Jobs for americans
--- Fear New USA industry thus new wealth for america
--- Fear new cleaner energy sources because it would create so many new jobs and reduce rates across the board
--- Fear Medicare Single Payer Insurance for = huge tax dollar savings to government,public schools,small business and all of us in general. Single Payer Medicare is the answer.
--- Fear Clean Collar Industries which produce jobs that cannot be outsourced
--- Fear educated Americans because WE ask questions
--- Fear losing of tax incentives/tax breaks for the wealthy that actually create tax increases for entire spectrum of the middle class
Heckling a speaker at events such as this is rude behavior but I noticed the writer does not say there wasn't similar heckling when the other candidate spoke.
Sadly that type of behavior does not come as a shock from Larryvillagers. No doubt those individuals were patting one another on the back for " fighting for the cause ." Little fish in a little pond.
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